I Do Love. Punctuation.

[Bob Pacey]

Rules, rules and more rules .


The first rule should be " There are no rules '

Reminds me of that song, and don't ask me who sang it.


And the sign said anyone caught trespassin will be shot on sight.
So I jumped over the fence and yelled at the house
Hey what gives you the right ? you put up a fence to keep the people out
But ya keeping mother nature in.


Cheers off to do a show

see ya later


Bob

[David J Delaney]

G'day Bob, I believe it was the "5 Man Electric Band" & the song was called "Signs" used to sing it all the time & now you have just opened the damn vault.....

As for punt....punktu....punctuation I'm glad I've got someone to do that for me as I have no clue at all......tried reading some punctuation books but they confused me more, I think one has to have a basic knowledge of punctuation to fully understand the stuff!!... I left school before really getting into it eh!....

[Neville Briggs]

If anybody is interested in researching the way rules that are not rules have infected our language use, I recommend reading You Are What You Speak by Robert Lane Greene ( An Oxford Scholar who speaks nine languages !! )
Robert Greene says " What do language pundits have in common with the wild eyed crowds at certain political rallies or raucous sporting events ? They have chosen a side. Fired by the thought that no one can express thought clearly anymore, they see themselves on the side of right, light, and civilisation "

[David Campbell]

?rulEs wHo needs Whats point the anyWEigh VilLene anD oBB rite are just Make lets’ uP! it go aloNg as wE

vaDdi

[Vic Jefferies]

Although I am far from educated in the use of the English language I do believe in grammatical rules and the correct use of punctuation.
Both have evolved over time (and will continue to evolve I am sure) to try and bring some certainty and accuracy to our written language. Those who would do away with "the rules" may find it easier to write in that fashion, but they will inevitably sacrifice clarity and meaning.

[Neville Briggs]

Now now David, not the strawman argument please

Matt; That's what Jackson Pollock would have us believe when we are looking at Blue Poles.

[Neville Briggs]

or is there Nevs' set of no rules

I hope not

I think there are indeed degrees of " subversion " . Although subversion is not what I would call the evolution of art.
Beethoven said that art was making things new, he made music new by stretching the so-called rules, but it is still recognised as music. John Cage comes onto the stage sits for several minutes at a piano doing nothing and then walks off and calls this a new approach to performance. THAT is subversion and destroys music as art.
Closer to your home Buddy Holly and Elvis and later the Beatles took pop music into new performance, but not subversion, they were still recognisable as music ( heaven help us ) some modern pop group that jumps onto the stage screams unintelligible gibberish and smashes things, is subversion and destruction not musical groundbreaking.

Jackson Pollock presents non-art and claims it as art, or Robert Rauschenberg paints a white square on a white canvas, that is subversion not a new path.
In the same way, David's satirical ( I assume ) example looks like subversion to me, a rewrite of the text into anarchic confusion of syntax and spelling which is non-language, different from a flexible application of grammatical usage.
Some of the modern poetry writers look to me to be just making a mishmash of incomprehensible wordiness and that, I think, is subversion and destruction of language, not making poetry new.

I thought we were just discussing the application of " rules " to punctuation, following on from Stephen's little verse about punctuation. . I was only making the point that punctuation is an indicator to make reading easier, not a set of laws punishable by the stern god of grammar rules.
I would never think that art or poetry is , anything goes.


Apologies for waffling, just trying to be clear. It's an interesting debate, sorry folks, got me in. You might think I'm inconsistent and confused. You might be right

[Zondrae]

During the course of the Nation Fok Festival (I will cut the story short),

a well known performer did a cold read of one of my poems. His interpretation was exactly as I would have read it. I believe a well written poem, with punctuation, according to the usual accepted rules, can be read as it was intended. The rendition of my poem demonstrated to me that this is so.
Note: I am not saying my writing is by any means perfect, only that the reading sounded as I imagined it, when I was finished writing. My punctuation may not have been correct but it was effective.

[Terry]

I look at my more recent stuff and know it's still far from perfect, but I can see improvement.

I look at my earlier attempts and though some of the poems seem reasonable, the punctuation leaves a lot to be desired.

Having taken a bit more interest in the reciting side of things of late, does seem to have helped.

As Dave says "I keep trying"



Terry

[Stephen Whiteside]

'Bush poetry writing' workshops are a dime a dozen at festivals - perhaps what is really needed is 'Punctuation workshops'!