Understanding Required - Blackened Billy

[Neville Briggs]

Surely Kym, poems are not about filling out stories. That's for novels and essays. Poems are the opposite, they distill or compress experience into the most succint, clear and precise wording.
In my reading, I discover that poems are meant to reflect the principle of parsimony, " less would not do the turn, more would be superfluous"
Veronica Weal's comment shows very clearly that they take into account the length of a poem

Laurence Binyon's famous poem " For the Fallen " has only 28 lines, but it is a famous masterpiece and contains the lines we all know so well
" They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old,
" Age shall weary them nor the years condemn "
Now that says much more than any filling out could do.

A bit of colour added to a black and white sketch does not necessarily make it sing, the sketch can sing if the artist is skilful enough to use black and white in a way that convinces the viewer that she sees colour. ( I've seen it done ) and Binyon did it.

[manfredvijars]

As an Australian bush poem, "The Man From Snowy river" is a 'distilled' story. A story in the most succint, clear and precise wording. Paterson also used many of the poetic devices available to him - as do many other bush poets. "The Man ..." can be performed in under seven minutes, yet producers made a rollicking two hour movie out of Paterson's tale (with extra scenes on the cutting-room floor).

Many of our top writers consistently plug away at the top writing comps and eventually (but NOT always) get a placing. Read the pieces of the placegetters (if you can get over the line-length) and you will find there is a consistancy in their writing that makes their piece stand out - yes, that's a subjective comment.

There was a time when Sonnets were believed to be the perfect structure for poetry, but there are only so many things that you can do with 14 lines.

Haikus are supposed to be a 'perfect' poetic form. Once you understand the form and belt out a few, it gets boring. Yes, that's also subjective.

There is more to our craft than mere line-length, those who look may see it. I'd suggest if we don't take the trouble to understand and apply all the devices available on our pallet, line length is irrelevant and mediochrity would rule.

Yes, look to Binyon et. al. then, "Go and DO ye likewise."

[Kym]

Neville, I disagree with your statement that shorter is better. How can you get emotion and action into a poem if you have to limit your words too tightly? What is better:

Jess and her horse galloped off the cliff into the river (((boooooring)))

or

They raced along the raging river’s steep and rocky ledge.
Jess pushed her faithful gelding off the mountain’s jagged edge.
In twisting, icy currents, Jess and Gang-Gang were immersed
and troopers watched them swallowed by the river’s swirling thirst.

[Kym]

Although, the other side of the argument is that some do tend to waffle on and on with irrelevent material, so I guess the poet needs to find a balance. Some story lines deserve more words. I admire people who can get a whole story in minimal words, but I also know that some poems are written too simply and have no heart in them, but with a few more words would be way more emotionally engaging.

[Kym]

Huh, I put another comment, but it's disappeared ... anyway, the reason I'm putting such short quick comments, is cos I'm at work and typing in between jobs. Ssshhh!!!

Now what was I saying? I think it's just as well we all write different styles and different lengths and different subjects, or else we'd all write the same kind of poems and how boring would that be?

Ooops, I can hear the boss, gotta go...
See ya',
k.

[Vic Jefferies]

I think the point Neville is making is we should not write unnecessarily long poems. More words or lines do not of themselves make a good poem. I believe that it is always good practices to revise what you have written and look for the words or the lines that can be omitted without affecting what you have tried to say or convey.
I think there may exist a false expectation amongst some writers and some judges that long poems are good poems when often the work would benefit from a vigorous pruning.
There used to be an old adage in bush poetry that once you got past a page in length then it had better be bloody good!
I have some long poems but I have applied the above principles to them and believe they are as short as they can be (with the exception of one that I am still not happy with.)
Say it once. Say it right and don't bludgeon the reader (or listener) with the same message.

Vic Jefferies

[Zondrae]

G'day all,
For a recent comp. I had to crop a poem. I was not really happy with the result. I think the longer version was better. When the 'Bronze Swagman' began to include in their conditions 'approx 700 words', I thought, "I'll never write one that long". However, when I had finished the poem it was 698 words. The following year my poem was over 700 words.
When I began writing I was struggling to full a page, and as my mentor said, "If it sits nicely on a page it is about right for performance", so I was content. Now it seems that with more writing experience my poems are becoming longer. Whether I am more comfortable with my storytelling or what, I'm not sure. I do however, find sometimes, there are whole stanzas that can be removed without disrupting the story. I try to be objective and take these out. I have received many entries back, with judges comments, not one has been "too long".
In MHO it all depends on the topic being addressed. I can't imagine a poem about a sunset running on for 700 words. But then again, it depends on what else is included, and who is writing it.

[Neville Briggs]

Manfred wrote;

There is more to our craft than mere line-length, those who look may see it. I'd suggest if we don't take the trouble to understand and apply all the devices available on our pallet, line length is irrelevant and mediochrity would rule.

You're a genius Manfred, you have succintly stated what I have used too many words to try and explain


Yes, look to Binyon et. al. then, "Go and DO ye likewise."

Quite so Manfred. If only I could do all that I preach. I wish


p.s. I wrote a reply to a few of the above comments but when I pressed submit, it disappeared, I haven't the stamina to do it all again . I read all the comments. Very interesting and helpful.

p.p.s. Manfred it's palette not pallet

[manfredvijars]

Goodonya Nev ... well caught, and it's "it's", not its ...

[Bellobazza]

Quite right Manfred...
Neville's "its" lost its apostrophe. (The first "its" wrong; the second "its" right!)
Punctuation! Go figure.

Cheers, Will.