Judging performance poetry.

[Neville Briggs]

I enjoyed reading David Campbell's Blackened Billy winning poem in the mag. I thought that it was very well done and a worthy winner.

Something I thought about though. I was at Tamworth when David read out his winning entry and it didn't make as much impression on me as it did when I had a chance to see it in print.
I thought that if I had had the opportunity to read it first, or hear David's poem spoken more than once I would have appreciated it better.

Maybe I just have a failing of perception or didn't listen carefully enough or maybe the buzz of the occasion was a distraction. But I did get to thinking that maybe it would be a good idea if poetry performance competitors were required to supply the written version of their performance work to the judges. I think the judges would gain a better idea of how the performer realised the intention of the writer if this was done.

Just a thought

[Maureen K Clifford]

Funny you say that Neville because Mannie did Tjandamara aka Pigeon on the radio this morning and it is a beautiful poem but without the words in front of you I felt some of the subtle rhymes would have been missed by the listener - it didn't detract at all from the performance just imo meant an aspect was missing, and I also wondered in an event where it was a performance piece if that would come into play because one gets so caught up in the story that perhaps the finer points get overlooked.
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[manfredvijars]

I sort of agree with Marty on this one Mausie. It's easy to become bogged down on the specifics of form when all we should be doing is enjoying ourselves. I know some performance judges look for Entertainment value of the PERFORMANCE not the intricacies of the written piece.

I'll post Jandamurra and see what you think then ...

[Neville Briggs]

I've been to many instrumental competitions and the judge always gets a copy of the music to be played by the peformer. It's important that the judge knows the content of what is being performed, because it is as much about the music as it is about the performer's ability.

I think Marty,. that having a copy of the written work for the judge in no way affects the interpretation of the performer or the appearance of the performer.
I agree that there is the danger of the judge becoming too intent on technical or mechanical aspects of the writing but then without the written piece there is the danger of a performance being judged simply as a piece of theatre and the fact that it is A POEM that is being performed might get overlooked.
Surely in a poetic performance it is the poem that is the significant factor, much less than the " act " of the performer.

[Bob Pacey]

i must be getting drunk as i agree with Marty. the only thing i will say is that if judges are going to score ( as I've seen in the past ) on memorisation then they had better know the poem.

Good example was a score sheet of 90 percent for the above when the poem performed was an original and had never been performed before ???


Still presentation of any poem is the performers imput and I've seen the same poem done by numerous performers and some were far in advance of the others. When you have done a poem a few times you also develope a feel for where you will get an audience reaction be it a laugh or sigh as the case may be.


Hey that reallly is my two BOBS worth.

[Maureen K Clifford]

I think Neville has explained better what I was trying to - and I have no experience in this so stand to be corrected - obviously or I think obviously a performance piece is being awarded points for performance - but also it is being awarded points for the poetry aspect as well. Is that a straight 50/50 split or is it weighted one way or the other. What I was trying to get across was that if the performance side of it - the actions, expressions, stage presence, stagecraft if you will is so good that it scored high does that then mean that the poetry side of it becomes insignificant in the grand scheme and thus of no real importance.

I am sure the audience wouldn't care one way or the other as they would be 'in the moment' but I am curious as to how the judges see it.

[Robyn]

After one of the first competitions I entered, a judge commented that he'd heard the humorous poem I'd done before, so it didn't have the same impact as if I'd said a new, original one.
If the judges have the words, they don't get that initial impact and element of surprise which hopefully the rest of the audience will get from a good performance.
And from a performer's point of view, if the judges don't have the words, you can cover mistakes much more easily!
Robyn

[Bob Pacey]

A really good point Robyn, How does a judge react when two poets perform the same piece and more so if it is a comical poem.



Does the one who gets the most laughs get more points ??? I've even seen performers marked down because they were too loud ??


I've also heard performers doing their own original poems change them slightly from the written version.




Bob

[Robyn]

My original pieces often change, as I keep trying to improve them. There are always several versions floating around in my brain, and I'm never quite sure which version will come out when the adrenaline is pumping.
I try not to start learning them until I think they are finished, but as soon as I start committing them to memory, better words pop into my head. The poem I start off learning is rarely the same as the one I end up with.
It's always good when what I think is the best version comes out, but usually no-one in the audience will notice if there's a different word or image. Just as long as I haven't changed the rhymes and end up with one old rhyme and one new one, which doesn't happen often but is always possible.
That's one reason why it is easier to say Banjo or Henry et al... once the words are in your mind, that's it - unless you find a new version, as in Lost, which was the subject of another thread recently. The version of Lost that I say came down from my mother, and that from her mother, and is in my Collected Verses. I think it's too late for me to change, even though the version in Song of the Pen may be better.
Cheers
Robyn

[Neville Briggs]

Sorry folks but except for Maureen, I think you are all missing the point.

The competitions are POETRY competitions aren't they, not comedy games or acting competitions.

If the audience is going to be moved or entertained, SURELY, first and foremost they are moved and entertained by THE WORDS of the poem. so the judges need to know accurately what the words are, to judge the speaking of the poem fairly.
This particularly applies, as Bob has shown, in the presentation of an original unkown piece.
Bob seems to think I have it wrong, but he supports my case very well, how can anyone be judged on memorisation if the judge does not know precisely the words to be memorised.

I think Marty, that stumbing over lines is not enough to show memory lapses, some people I have seen are adept at substituting different words to get over their memory lapses and as far as I am concerned, in those cases they have not presented the POEM as it should be.

As I have said before, there is plenty of scope for interpretation in pace, volume, pauses etc. but I do not believe that interpretation includes innaccurate or " creative " rendition of the words of the poem ( except for obvious satire ) , otherwise why should the writer bother with carefully constructing and balancing just the right words for the poem, if some performer can just do the words any old how without being challenged?

sx