Are there limits to metre and rhyme?

Recurring debates on important poetry topics.
Post Reply
manfredvijars

Re: Are there limits to metre and rhyme?

Post by manfredvijars » Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:03 am

Chorizo still gives me a sudden loss of pressure ... :D

william williams

Re: Are there limits to metre and rhyme?

Post by william williams » Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:03 am

Winds near his willie
please let it go free.
Manfred old fellow,
has chorizos for tea.

bill the old battler

User avatar
David Campbell
Posts: 1232
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:27 am
Location: Melbourne
Contact:

Re: Are there limits to metre and rhyme?

Post by David Campbell » Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:22 am

"it might not be foolish to say that the best definition of poetry encompasses all definitions - even those that contradict each other " hhmmm ??
and " A poem is a composition written for performance by the human voice "
and this quote " the more you understand of versification, the more you are likely to understand and appreciate poetry, in particular, the intimate relationship between the form and its content "
I don’t know the anthology you refer to, Neville, but the quoted comments prompt some thought.

I’m not sure that it’s a “definition” of poetry, but if the first one means you’ll have a better understanding of poetry when you’re prepared to take into account all the contradictory views expressed, then that makes sense. A problem arises if you get bogged down in one view and won’t tolerate the existence of any others.

With regard to the second quote, I’ve said before that anyone writing poetry should have in mind the spoken word, the sound and rhythm of the lines. This includes such things as taking care where the stresses fall, using punctuation to indicate pauses, using alliteration and assonance…in general, choosing the words and phrases that will have most impact on an audience. You’re not only writing for readers, but for listeners.

To me, the third quote is linked to the first, and also to what I wrote in my last comment in this thread. Basically, the more effort you’re prepared to put in, the better your understanding will be. And the more open you’ll be to innovation and change, to seeing how different forms can communicate content effectively. It’s not easy or compulsory, but it is worthwhile. Looking back might be comfortable, but it’s a mirage. Looking forward is the challenge.

Cheers
David

Neville Briggs
Posts: 6946
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:08 pm
Location: Here

Re: Are there limits to metre and rhyme?

Post by Neville Briggs » Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:22 pm

David Campbell wrote:, but if the first one means you’ll have a better understanding of poetry when you’re prepared to take into account all the contradictory views expressed, then that makes sense.
Yes I think you are right.
Neville
" Prose is description, poetry is presence " Les Murray.

User avatar
David Campbell
Posts: 1232
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:27 am
Location: Melbourne
Contact:

Re: Are there limits to metre and rhyme?

Post by David Campbell » Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:47 am

Are there any other responses to Slessor’s Winter Dawn? It’s puzzling that, with the range of material in the magazine, and the effort Neil puts into editing it, there is so little comment on this site. Issue after issue slips by without anything being said. If we can have a section for jokes here, why not one for the magazine?

In this issue we’ve got everything from Jack Drake’s classic The Cattle Dog’s Revenge through Ron Stevens’ The Lemon Tree, Bobby Miller’s Bingo, Brenda’s Where Drovers Dream, and Bob’s rugby poem to the Slessor piece…something for everybody, surely, and that’s only a sample.

Winter Dawn won’t be popular in some quarters. For example, I’m guessing it won’t go down well with the successful poet who wrote to me last year: “I only write verse with a strong bush theme that complies with the ABPA definition of bush poetry”. Nor is it likely to be applauded by the equally successful poet who wrote to me in 2012: “One must ask, that if we Australian/Bush Poets are complacent now, and do not protect our unique form of poetry, could our work become so infiltrated by unrelated genres that it takes on a completely new character and no longer exists in its PURE form?”

To those who hold such views I’d say: why can’t both The Cattle Dog’s Revenge and Winter Dawn sit side-by-side on adjacent pages of the magazine, each respected for what it offers to bush poetry? They will, understandably, attract diverging opinions…but that’s what poetry is all about. It's how we learn as poets.

And it’d be good to see some of those opinions expressed here!

(If anyone’s interested in other Slessor poems (apologies if I’ve mentioned this before), have a look at one of his most memorable ones, Beach Burial at: http://www.lyrikline.org/en/poems/beach ... 5pJvRZq1w0)

Cheers
David

User avatar
Maureen K Clifford
Posts: 7807
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:31 am
Location: Ipswich - Paul Pisasale country and home of the Ipswich Poetry Feast
Contact:

Re: Are there limits to metre and rhyme?

Post by Maureen K Clifford » Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:12 am

The current issue is great David - Neal has done a terrific job on it and the new colour pages really set it up nicely. Jack Drake's poem is one of my long standing favourites - in fact everyone who uses my Loo gets to read it - not because it's a crap poem :lol: but because they are a captive audience in the loo and it is right in their face. I plug poetry by fair means or foul :roll: plus Jack was the bloke who started me on the Bush Poetry path back in Stanthorpe although I doubt he remembers that. I also love the Bruce Watson poem Campbell wasn't there Certainly something for everyone in the mag and the front cover is a stunner.
Check out The Scribbly Bark Poets blog site here -
http://scribblybarkpoetry.blogspot.com.au/


I may not always succeed in making a difference, but I will go to my grave knowing I at least tried.

mummsie
Posts: 1033
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:33 am
Location: Tumut, NSW

Re: Are there limits to metre and rhyme?

Post by mummsie » Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:52 pm

Had a quick browse through my copy of the magazine which arrived today(well done Neil, another bonza edition) and in reply to Davids question regarding the individuals take on "Winter Dawn" I must say that on the first read it didn't grab me due to its complexity, but on further perusal it has made an impact which I guess supports Davids theory that if we pay the author the courtesy of taking time to "speculate'' on a particular piece the result may be surprising.
In reference to the poems you quoted earlier David, to me, of the three, Graham Fredricksons appealed most

“I took her through long valleys
where high mountains cup the meadows,
through temples of Antiquity and canyons of the mind,
where the lonely west wind rallies
and the Childhood Hills cast shadows,
searching for the questions to the answers I might find:”
I love the "feel'' of this poem and the way it flows. Is it possible to post the poem in its entirety David? I hadn't come across it before.
But then I do prefer poems that need little explanation, that's just my personal preference but not to say I wouldn't give more complex poetry a second look. One of my favorite poems learnt in fifth grade "Today" along with "Anzac Cove" would be considered complex poems for one so young, but for some reason they always appealed (we had an excellent teacher who shared her love of poetry) to me and still do today.

Today

By Thomas Carlyle

So here hath been dawning

Another blue Day:

Think wilt thou let it

Slip useless away.


Out of Eternity

This new Day is born;

Into Eternity,

At night, will return.


Behold it aforetime

No eye ever did:

So soon it forever

From all eyes is hid.


Here hath been dawning

Another blue Day:

Think wilt thou let it

Slip useless away.

Sorry for rambling, that's my two bobs worth.

Sue
the door is always open, the kettles always on, my shoulders here to cry on, i'll not judge who's right or wrong.

Heather

Re: Are there limits to metre and rhyme?

Post by Heather » Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:04 pm

Sue I think Graham's poem has been posted here before by Manfred but I can't recall the name of it. It is one that i remember :)

User avatar
David Campbell
Posts: 1232
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:27 am
Location: Melbourne
Contact:

Re: Are there limits to metre and rhyme?

Post by David Campbell » Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:31 pm

Yep, Manfred posted it early in 2012. Here's the link, Sue: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2732&p=26202&hilit ... ity#p26202

Cheers
David

mummsie
Posts: 1033
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:33 am
Location: Tumut, NSW

Re: Are there limits to metre and rhyme?

Post by mummsie » Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:52 pm

Thank you David, now that's a poem!!!!! Sue
the door is always open, the kettles always on, my shoulders here to cry on, i'll not judge who's right or wrong.

Post Reply