Are there limits to metre and rhyme?

Recurring debates on important poetry topics.
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Neville Briggs
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Re: Are there limits to metre and rhyme?

Post by Neville Briggs » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:28 am

Don't blame me Bob, I didn't know you were lurking in the wings :lol:
Neville
" Prose is description, poetry is presence " Les Murray.

Heather

Re: Are there limits to metre and rhyme?

Post by Heather » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:54 am

Show us where the politics are Bob. People have been throwing ideas around (that's called a discussion) since man could talk (or possibly grunt). Otherwise, I doubt the stone axe would have been invented.

...aaah Bob, there are many a "yes dear" that explain more than one ex in this world....


Heather :)

Vic Jefferies
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Re: Are there limits to metre and rhyme?

Post by Vic Jefferies » Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:21 am

Neville interesting that you mention Blue Poles. I have for many years tried to find someone or something that can explain to me why this painting is held in such awe. All I have ever been able to learn is: it is big; it is different; it was painted by a number of people some of whom were at various times drunk and it is considered to be worth a lot of money. I have never been able to find any information about what it means; what it represents (if anything) and what I should admire about it. Can you help?

Neville Briggs
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Re: Are there limits to metre and rhyme?

Post by Neville Briggs » Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:15 pm

Vic.....The Blue Poles thingy is too big a question to deal with here. :) What I would say is that I regard it as non-art or even anti-art. And I think that it is meant to be that.
It's a bit like some of the non poetry and anti poetry that gets put out by some of the post-modernist "poets".

And I fear that they are not joking; cultural destruction is the deliberate strategy.
Neville
" Prose is description, poetry is presence " Les Murray.

Neville Briggs
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Re: Are there limits to metre and rhyme?

Post by Neville Briggs » Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:52 pm

Not quite Marty, Ern Malley was a joke, Blue Poles is not. The full explanation is quite long, if anyone wants to come round my place for some chorizo and calamari casserole, sourdough rye and red wine, and a listen to my authentic baroque records. I'll explain all. Until you fall asleep, which might not take long. :lol:
Neville
" Prose is description, poetry is presence " Les Murray.

manfredvijars

Re: Are there limits to metre and rhyme?

Post by manfredvijars » Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:19 pm

NEVVIE!!! Choritzos et. al.???

That's definitly 'farting fodder' ... I can see what you think of 'blue poles' already ... :lol:

That's DEADLY Man .... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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David Campbell
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Re: Are there limits to metre and rhyme?

Post by David Campbell » Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:48 pm

Bob, I’m not sure what you mean by “It is a political thing.”…but maybe you’d better tune out of what follows because you won’t like it. (Just as I switch off from rugby because I have no idea of the technicalities, nor do I care.)

I enjoy a degree of complexity, and reckon we could do with some more of it in bush poetry…more verse that prompts “speculation”. As Heather says, people can learn from discussion, and there have been a lot of interesting (and contrasting) views expressed in this thread, many of them prompted by poems not normally found here. Manfred, for example, said the Wallace-Crabbe poem Melbourne excited him, whereas Matt wasn’t so impressed. I’d be quite happy to see such a poem in a bush poetry competition.

My attitude to poetry is that if the author has put time and effort into creating an image, an emotion, or an idea, then I owe him or her the courtesy of spending some time trying to “speculate” on the meaning. For example, Matt (as quoted by Heather) writes:

“And in good time majestic swales
of colour fill the cirrus sails
that clear celestial decks for night to fill."

So I have to check the meaning of “swales” and try to visualise the image of “cirrus sails” clearing “celestial decks”. Graham Fredriksen writes:

“I took her through long valleys
where high mountains cup the meadows,
through temples of Antiquity and canyons of the mind,
where the lonely west wind rallies
and the Childhood Hills cast shadows,
searching for the questions to the answers I might find:”

That requires a pause to get the rhythm right and think about high mountains that “cup the meadows”, “temples of Antiquity”, “canyons of the mind”, and the “Childhood Hills” that “cast shadows”. Then there’s Kenneth Slessor’s Winter Dawn in the just-arrived issue of the magazine (great choice, Neil!), and taking time to absorb lines like:

“Far away on the rim of this great misty cup,
The sun gilds the dead suburbs as he rises up,
Diamonds the wind-cocks, makes glitter the crusted spikes
On moss-drowned gables. Now the tiles drip scarlet-wet,
Swim like birds’ paving stones, and sunlight strikes
Their watery mirrors with a moister rivulet,
Acid and cold.”

Like the poem or not, some degree of “speculation” is necessary in order to arrive at an opinion. For those who like poetry that’s easy to read and understand, with no need for explanation or interpretation, and nothing out of the ordinary in terms of metre and rhyme…you’re well looked after. There’s a ton of it out there, and it’s not going away. But occasionally it’s rewarding to see something different, something that challenges, something that takes you out of your comfort zone and makes you appreciate the magic of words.

Cheers
David

Neville Briggs
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Re: Are there limits to metre and rhyme?

Post by Neville Briggs » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:14 pm

David, in the Norton Anthology of Poetry, ( Margaret Ferguson, Mary Jo Salter, Jon Stallworthy, eds. WW Norton & Co. 2005 ) they have these interesting comments from the editors;
" it might not be foolish to say that the best definition of poetry encompasses all definitions - even those that contradict each other " hhmmm ??
and " A poem is a composition written for performance by the human voice "
and this quote " the more you understand of versification, the more you are likely to understand and appreciate poetry, in particular, the intimate relationship between the form and its content "

Are they right? if so how do we put those things together ?

By the way David, you'll be burnt at the stake as a notorious heretic for blasphemous comments about rugby. :roll:



Manfred
DSCN0614.JPG
No one came to my culture dinner. It was delicious and they missed hearing my wonderful record of The Fairy Queen by Purcell. :lol:
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Neville
" Prose is description, poetry is presence " Les Murray.

Bob Pacey
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Re: Are there limits to metre and rhyme?

Post by Bob Pacey » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:38 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


The political comment was in reference to the YES DEAR !



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Bob
The purpose in life is to have fun.
After you grasp that everything else seems insignificant !!!

Neville Briggs
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Re: Are there limits to metre and rhyme?

Post by Neville Briggs » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:51 pm

matt wrote::lol: god bless ya Nev. I don't know who Pucell is but hope you enjoyed it
cracking table cloth mate
Thanks Matt. :)

Henry Purcell was probably the greatest English music composer. Before him, the premium music was staid and pious for the church. Purcell brought music into the theatre and public celebration and made it energetic. Before Purcell, English music was polyphony , complicated and difficult to follow. Polyphony is where you have a choir that sounds like four groups are singing four different songs all at the same time. Purcell made the music simplified, elegant and easy to listen to and he added trumpets and drums to the orchestra for rhythm and energy.

So I listened and reflected on poetry. How to make it simple, elegant and energetic, but easy to listen to. I might be able to do that one day. I dream on. ;)
Neville
" Prose is description, poetry is presence " Les Murray.

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