Punctuation

Recurring debates on important poetry topics.
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Vic Jefferies
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Re: Punctuation

Post by Vic Jefferies » Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:45 pm

I agree that Neil has done and is trying to do a wonderful job with our magazine, however the point I was attempting to make is that because people prefer to keep their best work for competitions he struggles to obtain good material.
Obviously there is a place for poetry competitions but I think there is far too much emphasis placed on their worth and they do have a deleterious affect on the poetry scene in general.
It has been my experience that non competitive poet's breakfasts draw larger crowds and encourage more new comers to have a go and more importantly to return.
Perhaps the suggestion that the ABPA conduct a competition through the magazine might prove a worthwhile compromise.

Terry
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Re: Punctuation

Post by Terry » Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:29 pm

Hi Neil, Vic & Bill,

I think it’s great that you ask the questions and state your opinions, I may not agree with them all, but applaud you for keeping us all on our toes. It’s so easy to go with the flow and agree with each other all the time, rather than rock the boat. But it’s even more important to ask the questions on things you feel need addressing.

Cheers Terry

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Stephen Whiteside
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Re: Punctuation

Post by Stephen Whiteside » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:38 am

I don't think there's any question that - judged purely as a spectacle - Poets' Breakfasts are more entertaining that performance competitions, but that's not the point, surely.

PBs have a whole range of advantages over performance comps.

Here are a few, as I see it:

1. They can flow much better, because they don't have to pause for the judges after every performer. It takes a very talented MC to keep the banter going for several minutes between each performer in a competition, particularly as the MC never really knows for sure how long the judges are going to take. Even the most dedicated MC is either going to finish his spiel too early, or go on too long. (It is particularly lacking in entertainment value when an MC stares silently at the panel of judges for long periods of time.)

2. Poets take more risks in Breakfasts, because there is so much less riding on it.

3. Related to my second point, there is usually a greater variety of material at a Breakfast. Performance comps tend to be 'themed' (original, contemporary, traditional, etc.).

However, none of this is to diminish the value of perfomance comps. Clearly, they have their place. It is important to have some way of formally acknowledging the best performers.

I often feel organisers of performance competitions make a rod for their own backs by expecting to get a large audience, and then feeling disappointed when they don't. Sometimes I almost feel performance comps are best held behind closed doors, with an audience of family and friends of the performers only - which is how it more or less seems to work out anyway.

The one exception to all this is the National Folk Festival, where the Breakfasts double as a competition, and it all seems to work well.
Stephen Whiteside, Australian Poet and Writer
http://www.stephenwhiteside.com.au

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Stephen Whiteside
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Re: Punctuation

Post by Stephen Whiteside » Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:16 pm

Thinking a bit more about the NFF, and why it works so well, I think the following points are relevant.

1. There is only one judge. This means no conferring is required, and probably cuts down on time. I'm not sure about this, but I don't think the judging is done following ABPA guidelines. I suspect the judging is therefore rather less formal than might otherwise be the case.

2. Not all the performers are competing. Reading automatically disqualifies a performer, yet quite a few of the performers (including myself often) do in fact read. This serves to break up the tension a bit and also, of course, makes life a lot easier for the judge.

3. The fact that the event takes place within the context of a much bigger (music) festival probably also helps. It creates a certain 'buzz' and momentum for the audience which might otherwise be lacking. The audience is usually also pretty large which also helps, of course.
Stephen Whiteside, Australian Poet and Writer
http://www.stephenwhiteside.com.au

william williams

Re: Punctuation

Post by william williams » Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:08 pm

Stephen the remarks you make may be relevant but the one thing that you fail to state in the NFF is this.
At the cost of a person and their partner is I have been lead to believe is $75-00 per person and even the competitors are compelled to pay this.
Now that maybe all right in your profession but what about pensioner or family people or don't they matter.
And what about people who have poor memories about what is written who have spent some of their life protecting stupid professional people from themselves.
It is a very unequal place we live in.
Our speech and writings are not as eloquent as others yet we are penalized for holding out our hand to help others as some of the population does.
Your standards are not the common standards that are around every day so how about creating a common standards that we all can attain and not perfection as you would like.

The ordinary poets breakfast in most cases is something that the common population (mum & dad and the kids and the grey nomads ) can afford to go where the bank will not be broken and people of ALL abilities can preform ether by reading or remembering what they or others have written they are ether the future or the existence of our group.

PS the NFF poets breakfast where you cannot read is there because it helps for the promoters to make more money

BILL WILLIAMS THE OLD BATTLER

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Stephen Whiteside
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Re: Punctuation

Post by Stephen Whiteside » Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:30 pm

Bill, sometimes I get the impression you don't like me very much...
Stephen Whiteside, Australian Poet and Writer
http://www.stephenwhiteside.com.au

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Mal McLean
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Re: Punctuation

Post by Mal McLean » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:07 pm

All this because I couldn't punctuate...and I have the man flu :shock:

A lot of relevant points made but just how to tie it all up? Beats me. A couple of panadols, a cup of tie and a good lie down while I think about it.

The man flu is a SERIOUS illness. I hope I survive the night. :cry:

Mal the ill oldfart.
Preserve the Culture!

Heather

Re: Punctuation

Post by Heather » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:09 pm

I hope you survive to write another day Mal....funny old world poetry world isn't it? ;)

Bill, I'm not quite sure how the cost of the NFF or any other festival or event is Stephen's fault. Any concert, festival or event has costs that must be covered. There are plenty of events I can't afford to go to - so I don't go. I don't whinge about it, it's just a fact of life. I do things I can afford but I certainly don't begrudge anyone who who does go to those events because they have probably worked hard, saved up all year and earned the right to go.

Heather :)

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Stephen Whiteside
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Re: Punctuation

Post by Stephen Whiteside » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:37 pm

Not sure I can really afford it either to be honest...
Stephen Whiteside, Australian Poet and Writer
http://www.stephenwhiteside.com.au

william williams

Re: Punctuation

Post by william williams » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:59 pm

Hi Heather. At no time do I believe that I have ever said that Stephen is at fault at costs at the Festivals AND :shock: I DO NOT WINGE
I have worked bloody hard most of my life until 10 years ago when a stroke, a replacement of a knee then another stroke de-neighed me of that ability but I could not give a dam about all that as life still goes on and another door opens

hey Mal :roll: Rum may help your problem

Ahh Stephen I do not dislike you nor do I have no disrespect for you what so ever.

You have a place in society the same as I have and many others have along with the financial burden that is there .
But there are many of us who write to tell a story in a plain simple style just like Paterson, Lawson, and many others with out the embellishment of the technical requirement of MODERN BUSH POETRY where as people of that day when they were around are were not much different to people of this day and age.
At poets breakfasts people like poems or yarns that tell a story in plain simple words that they can enjoy and can relate to or fantasize about and the people of yesteryear were no different than those people today.

There is an old saying if it ain't broke don't mend it but help it


Bill Williams

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