Punctuation

[Stephen Whiteside]

I'm feeling very confused.

I thought the definition of bush poetry was simply rhyming verse with an Australian theme. Nobody told me that it was "rough hewn" or inferior in some way to the "masters" or the "academics".

Was Banjo Paterson a bush poet? I'm inclined to think he was just a poet, but he does seem to be held up by the bush poetry community as "bush poet par excellence". Was there anything "rough hewn" about Banjo Paterson? No, there wasn't. Quite the reverse. He was utterly meticulous. So was C. J. Dennis. You might say Henry Lawson was a little rough around the edges at times, but his best work was in truth well ahead of its time. He was a genius.

To my mind the notion that bush poetry is in some way rough is taking us in EXACTLY the wrong direction.

I do think it is quite fair to make a distinction between performed and written work, but that is a different thing entirely. Much work that works well in performance does not look so chipper on paper and, similarly, much work that looks great on paper struggles to cut the mustard when performed. But just because a great performance piece doesn't look so good on paper, that does not mean it is somehow second rate. It is what it is - a great performance piece.

Part of the problem too, I think, is that we are very much a written culture. We value the written word over the spoken word as opposed to, say, the traditional indigenous community, where the reverse applies. However, just because the majority take this view, we don't have to follow them. The ABPA, given its traditions, and those it stands for, is in a very strong position to resist such opinions. We champion the camp fire story telling - or yarn spinning. We prize the recited word as opposed to the merely 'read' word.

As long as we give equal credit to performance and written awards, there really should not be a problem.

We should treasure great performance pieces for their ability to entertain or move a live audience, and we should treasure great written pieces - with their sound spelling, punctuation and grammar.

[Terry]

Hi Stephen,
I wonder if most of us forget how much the country has changed from what it was back in the days of Lawson and the other great poet's of those times. Back then a much bigger percentage of the population lived in the bush in small towns and on farms and stations etc. and let's face it Australia was a much different place back then, as was the rest of the world. So it's not surprising that poetry about the bush was popular; more people could relate to the stories and poems of those times. But that's not to say that many didn't also enjoy poetry about a number of other subjects as well.

To day we are very much an urban population of diverse cultures, many of whom probably will never relate to the old style of what probably should be called Australian poetry - I wonder just how many of us on this forum could say we're true bushies. Not that you need to be to like or write poetry about the bush.

I personally think you write or recite the poetry that you like, but none of us should be trying to tell others what we should or shouldn't be doing. We must accept that there is a divergence of opinion and I suspect there always will be, I also think this is good for our form of poetry.

The thing perhaps we all should be worried about is the apparent decline of Bush Poetry in general, the only thing that seems to be holding it's own is humorous recited poetry. You can get a reasonable response to serious poems from a group of rusted on bush poets, but the general public, at least where I have watched, seem to switch off pretty quickly.

Cheers terry

[Stephen Whiteside]

I wouldn't worry too much about the decline of bush poetry, Terry. These things come and go. The public is pretty fickle at the end of the day. If there hadn't been a decline initially, we could not have had a resurgence! The one constant is change, as they say, and, generally speaking, the worst way to please anybody is to try to do so! I think you are just best to paddle your own canoe and take what comes, for better or for worse.

[Terry]

Hi Stephen,
I don’t lose any sleep over it, I’m fond of all kinds of poetry, with a particular liking of well written serious poems and not necessarily of the bush variety – I love old poems like ‘Tarantella’ and the ‘Highwayman’ etc.

I accept however that at the moment, going on recent events I’ve been to, humorous recited poetry certainly seem to be what the general public like and they’re not worried if it’s a little risqué either.
One recent sad moment was listening to a top poet reciting ‘Clancy Of The Overflow’; before he was a third of the way through it, at least half the audience had switched of and were chatting among themselves, yet moments before were loving some fairly suggestive lightweight humorous poems – such is life I guess.

Terry

[Stephen Whiteside]

It's hard to know what to make of a story like that. The audience may well have heard Clancy a hundred times. Perhaps the poor old fella will have to go into hibernation for fifty years or so before he can be properly appreciated again.

[Stephen Whiteside]

Returning to the discussion of punctuation, if there is some feeling that lowering standards will somehow increase the popularity of bush poetry, then I have to say I believe this is totally misguided. It will possibly slightly exacerbate the situation, but will probably make no difference at all.

If young people ever turn to bush poetry, it will be its formality that attracts them.

It makes no more sense to compromise on punctuation than to compromise on spelling, grammar, rhyme or metre, and once you go down that path, what are you left with? Certainly not bush poetry.

[warooa]

I have said this before, but at the risk of boring everyone, I think "Bush" poetry is akin to folk music:
the people's poetry; the expression by the people of their experiences in their words and in their own way.
It is no more to be compared with the works of the great poets than folk music should be compared to a concerto

I dunno . . . give me Mumford and Sons over Mozart anyday.

I tend to agree with Stephen. Punctuation isn't one of my strong points either, but I'm fully aware that a well written and structured poem requires it. And if correct punctuation and grammar is just, like soooo yesterday to younger folk, then that's just a product of the evolution of the age we're in. The popularity of rhyming poetry isn't something I fret about either - it'll always be around, and anyone aspiring to be very good at it - as we all are, must conform to the standards required. It's hard work, but there's no such thing as a free lunch.

Or . . . bash out comical doggerel that'll give people a laugh.

Either way we are doing a service to what is known as Bush Poetry, and taking it to the people.

Marty

[Stephen Whiteside]

The other funny thing is that 'folk music' isn't really 'music of the folk' any more. At its highest level, it is just as professional as any other form of music. As somebody said of a major folk festival recently, "I can no longer afford the price of a ticket to go along and hear songs about poor people." I think a lot of people could relate to that. The musicianship of the top folk acts these days is quite breathtaking. There is no reason why bush poetry should not be like that - in fact, it already is!

[manfredvijars]

Mark Twain, when comparing his writings to literature said, "Literature is like fine wine, whereas my writings are like water - and everyone needs water!"

[Vic Jefferies]

Stephen wrote:
The other funny thing is that 'folk music' isn't really 'music of the folk' any more. At its highest level, it is just as professional as any other form of music.

Just the point I was trying to make Stephen. Folk music aint folk music anymore because the bloke in the street can't compete against the professionals and the experts. You and I both attend the National Folk Festival each year and I think you would agree there isn't a lot of folk music played there anymore. It has been taken over by professionals who play extremely good music but it aint folk. The closest thing you get to true "people's music" is in the Sessions Bar where anyone can have a go and by jeeeeeeeeez do they have a go!

I said in my original post that I don't think we should dumb our craft down or that mediocre or poor work should excel. However what I was trying to convey was that perhaps the less professional or expert poets should be given some lee way so as to encourage them.

It seems to me that there is too much emphasis on punctuation, grammar and spelling and less emphasis on poetic content. Some of the stuff I have seen adjudged as winning poetry may have been technically and grammatically correct but often had absolutely no poetic content whatsoever.