Can bush poetry survive?

[David Campbell]

Thanks, Marty...yep, you definitely are a torch-bearer! I'm sure there are a lot of people who are with you in preferring the 'bush' side, and that will, as Manfred says, continue to be the bedrock of what we do...but the "broad church" must be allowed to develop in the ways that you mention. I suspect you're right with the Jack Thompson reference...the kids I spoke to yesterday obviously hadn't bought copies!

Manfred: Great to hear there are so many entries for Winton, but that's where Neville's telling observation about the percentage of Australians living in cities is relevant. You're right that it's mostly a "country thing", as the vast majority of our bush poetry competitions and festivals are based outside cities. I was delighted that the school I attended yesterday was actually doing a unit on ballads, as I don't think it's at all common down here. It'd be interesting to know how many of the written Winton entries came from major cities and how many requests our performance poets get from city schools.

Neville: That's a good point about the perception of bush poetry and it's a very hard attitude to shift, particularly when linked to Marty's comment about the retelling of old jokes. (Sorry, Bob, but I’m with Marty on this one.) Originality of story-telling (serious or humorous) needs to be combined with effective and evocative poetry that goes beyond "ordinary language"...as long as it doesn't tie itself in obscure knots!

Terry: Val has every right to state her views, and she did...in no uncertain terms. After all, she said that the poems by Don and Leonie should have "got the push" from the judges because, although she enjoyed them as poems, they threw her into a "rage" because they weren't "purely bush". She was furious because they received HC awards and thought that there were "far superior" poems (presumably based on subject-matter) that weren't recognised...a situation that "stank". In effect, she was attacking the adjudication of the Bronze Swagman judges...she said they "must be crazy". I wonder how they feel about that? It's pretty strong stuff, so I'm being equally blunt. I can't agree that hiving bush poetry off into its own (even smaller) "niche" would serve any purpose. It's difficult enough to get recognition for rhyming verse as it is without complicating the situation even further with sub-categories. I agree entirely that we write for our own enjoyment, but surely part of that enjoyment lies in seeing our favourite verse-form flourish and communicate with the widest possible audience. I simply can't see that happening by imposing limitations and creating more finicky rules about what is and is not "purely bush" verse.

Stephen should add his own name to that list as he has had a considerable number of children's poems published in a variety of places, including magazines specifically produced for schools. And check out “The Chinstrap Penguin" in Stephen's post, complete with strategically dislodged hat!

Thanks, David. It's good to know that bush poetry books are going into libraries and that there are some areas where things are going well.

Cheers
David

[Terry]

G/day David,
I never denied that Valerie Read had used very strong and perhaps unwise language in her poem. I simply defended her right to express her point view.
I suppose the only answer is, that those offended enough should contact Valerie herself and express their views directly to her. I imagine there will be a few replies in the next ABPA Magazine as well.

Terry

[Neville Briggs]

G'day Terry. I'll try and explain that the view I outlined ( quoted above by you ) was one held by influential poetry practitioners who have the ability to keep bush poetry out of the anthologies and out of the literary journals.

One of these is Mark OConnor, a highly celebrated, studied and awarded Australian poet. And he includes traditional verse in his anthology,Two Centuries of Australian Poetry( Oxford University Pres, 2011 ed) . In this book OConnor prefaces his section on traditional verse by saying ...QUOTE " If it rhymes it's poetry " Much of the dreariest verse in English is produced by people who think poetry is simply commonplace statements with extra words or phrases dropped in at intervals to create rhymes and rhythm. Poetry is far more than this. And yet, other things being equal, a poem is the better for having a metre.UNQUOTE.

Is he talking about bush poetry. I fear so. Yes I did say that this view is not without foundation, I was not intending to " put down" anyone but draw attention to what could be a factor that keeps bush poetry away from the broader acceptance that it might otherwise enjoy. If we want to survive and build up bush poetry into a broader acceptance then we need to seriously consider criticisms like Mr OConnor's. You can't just write him off as a toffee nose or pretentious literati, he is not that.

I don't intend that as Devil's Advocate. I intend that as a plea " Let's get better at our craft "

And finally, I am sure that there will always be room for the outback ballad stories and dunny jokes. I hope so, they are great.

[Terry]

G/day Neville,
There is one part of your post that of course I do agree with and that is that we should be striving to enhance our poems with more poetical language, believe it or not even I am always reminding myself (perhaps not very successfully) of just that.

I don’t write dunny poems or convert jokes into poems but it doesn’t worry me that others might enjoy doing that. Nor do I restrict myself to Bush Ballads (although I do write plenty of them) I actually wrote and a posted a poem on similar lines to David’s about dementia last year it was called ‘For The Love Of Ami’.

I suppose it shows my naivety but I don’t worry about future of Bush poetry as perhaps I once did. I have now come to the conclusion that trying to predict what future generations may or may not like is a bit like trying win lotto, but I applaud those are trying to do something that may help our cause.

After reading so much rubbish put out by the anti rhyming mob I don’t really care what they say and simply treat it as so much drivel, although as I’m sure you will realize I not very well up on the who’s who in the poetry world.

After visiting Tamworth last year (which I really enjoyed) I came away realizing that as much as I enjoy trying to write a few poems that I’m no where near as committed as most of people I met, you can feel the buzz, the excitement, people were really living the moment. I intend to go again but for the week next time, perhaps a bit of it might rub off onto me.

Cheers Terry

[Bob Pacey]

The argument does not weight too well Marty, so what you are telling me is that some of the most popular poems like Col Wilsons " The Cross Eyed Bull " Or Bill Kearns " Entrapment " are not entertaining because someone in the audience has heard it before. I know this not to be so.

Just ask the audience that were at The Bundaberg Muster last year as Bill had them rolling in the isles with some of his most popular poems and a lot of short punchy poems obviously converted from jokes.


Anyway I won't labour the point so I guess we will just have to agree not to agree.



Cheers Bob

[Mal McLean]

Hmmmm and sigh......................

I'm not a bush poet in the sense that I write of horses cattle stockwhips etc etc etc. And neither are many of you. A traditional poet, maybe. But I write about Australia, Australians and the Australian way of life. The ABPA IS the only home I can find for traditional poetry. The ABPA helps to preserve our culture and a literary style. If the style becomes too restrictive and confined to pure bush related poetry then methinks a decline in standards and membership may follow. I encourage you all to write about all of your experiences and I see that many of you do. Traditional poetry has a bright future but a difficult present and a glorious past. Lets keep the future open.

For some good reading I recommend:-

http://www.poetrymagic.co.uk/traditional.html

in which you will find some thought provoking writings such as:-

Traditional poetry has the greater store of principles. Such things as: Poetry is language organized for aesthetic purposes. Poetry must not only describe but bear witness. A poem is distinguished by the feeling that dictates it and that which it communicates, by the economy and resonance of its language, and by the imaginative power that integrates, intensifies and enhances experience. Poems bear some relationship to real life but are equally autonomous and independent entities that contain within themselves the reason why they are so and not otherwise. Unlike discourse, which proceeds by logical steps, poetry is intuited whole as a presentiment of thought and/or feeling. Workaday prose is an abbreviation of reality: poetry is its intensification. Poems have a transcendental quality: there is a sudden transformation through which words assume a particular importance. Art is a way of knowing, and is valuable in proportion to the justice with which it evaluates that knowledge.

[Neville Briggs]

Here's another bit of food for thought on this discussion subject.

The ABC ran a TV series over six weeks called Bush Slam. Hosted by Greig Pickhaver.( H G Nelson )
The series was for poetry done on-the-spot, on themes to do with the country locations where the program was filmed ; Cowra, Stanley, Corryong, Yarrabah, Blinman and Lightning Ridge.

POETRY ON COUNTRY THEMES IN COUNTRY TOWNS. And only ONE member of the ABPA or person styled as a bush poet got a look in ( Carol Heuchan ) .
There were more Hip Hop rap artists than ABPA members represented. And that included Corryong !!!, site of a well established ABPA event.

How could this be ??? How did we fail to be well represented in this program, given some of the well established and experienced bush poets in the ABPA, and some of them probably located near to those venues. I thought it was a bit of a let down for ABPA bush poetry aspirations.
That's about all I could say about it because I don't know the process that the ABC used for selection, it does make you wonder ???

[Terry]

That's interesting, but not so surprising I suppose.
You'd have thought that David would have right up at the front of the queue, wouldn't you.
I wonder if he was offered a Guernsey.

Terry

[Mal McLean]

The fact of the matter is that traditional poetry won't get a look in on most occassions due to unintentional bias in some cases and downright intellectual hatred in others and a great swathe of ignorance in the middle. If you want to get published in the money media or seen you better be prepared to write contemporary poetry and perform it. This is just how things are. There is however a worldwide resurgance of interest in traditional poetry which is slowly gathering a following and impetus of it's own. Particularly in the USA and UK. All we can do, I fear, is promote ouselves as best we can by writing as well as we can. Of course, the ABPA should take up the cudgel and batter a few doors down, at least so a voice is heard.

[Maureen K Clifford]

suspect this is a discussion that will never be resolved and perhaps Bush Poetry is like the wheel - it takes its turn at the bottom and revolves up to the top in the course of the cycle.

It's probably like Oysters - if you like them you can't get enough and will eat them whenever you can - if you don't like them - regardless of how appetizing the dish, or how nicely presented. No matter the other ingredients that might appeal to your taste - you ain't gonna eat it.

Too simplistic? Possibly - but then again..........................oysters have been eaten since biblical times - lot's of people don't like them but they still sell well....but to a limited market.