Critiqueing Other's Works

Recurring debates on important poetry topics.
Leonie

Critiqueing Other's Works

Post by Leonie » Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:38 am

Some very good points made there from Carol. I particularly like the one about poems that have been posted (and maybe changed after some helpful input from others) no longer being totally original. It's something I have been thinking about for quite some time. I think we now accept that poems posted here or anywhere else for that matter are considered 'published' for the most part and maybe we even sort of understand the 'no longer annonymous' bit too, but I often ask myself (and others :lol:) just when is an 'edited with help' poem no longer original? It's a bit of a bug bear with me.

Kym

Re: Australian Written Championships

Post by Kym » Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:58 am

I wonder that too Leonie, how much assistance is too much? I imagine a whole verse would be a enough to not claim the poem entirely as your/my own. But what about someone suggesting a better word, a line juggled around, or an idea that could be written in? We've all helped each other to that extent, but is that enough to eliminate poems from comps? I don't think so. It would have to be a significant amount of work to make a poem no longer original. What do other people think?

carol heuchan
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:40 pm

Re: Australian Written Championships

Post by carol heuchan » Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:16 pm

Thanks Marty,
carol

Terry
Posts: 2942
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:53 pm

Re: Australian Written Championships

Post by Terry » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:02 pm

Hi Carol, Everybody,
I mentioned before sometime ago that it would be unwise to enter poems in some comps that that exclude poems that have been previously published. There are of course some comps that accept previously published poems, I guess the message is to read the terms and rules of a comp very carefully. I would also guess that after awhile there must be a chance that a judge will come across a poem they've seen before because many poems are reentered into various comps.
Regarding how much help can a poet receive before it's no longer entirely theirs is a much more thorny issue, for a start of how do you police it. If it's as Marty suggest then I guess there are a lot of poems floating around that have had some help, especially when writers are first starting out.

It's an interesting subject and probably deserves a fair bit of discussion.

Cheers Terry

william williams

Re: Australian Written Championships

Post by william williams » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:12 pm

If in the coarse of speaking a word was mentioned and you thought that you may use it in a poem that you are writing, is that not construed as giving a help and if that would be the case then every word written or uttered that you have seen or heard would be of assistance to you.

bill w

Leonie

Re: Australian Written Championships

Post by Leonie » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:34 pm

I think that one would be drawing a bit of a long bow Bill, but I get what you are saying. :? It's an interesting question isn't it? I tend to think that when entering a competition where we sign a declaration that the submitted poem is 'all our own work' or words like that, it shouldn't really have had any outside help at all in the form of editing. Picking up an idea from wherever might be a different thing altogether but even that has traps for the unwary. I seem to remember someone mentioning they had a poem they had written as a satire disqualified because it was not considered original.

carol heuchan
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:40 pm

Re: Australian Written Championships

Post by carol heuchan » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:03 pm

Dear Marty, your last comment I find a little disappointing. I do not think that quote
'if you can get away with it, it's OK'
is the way I want go about poetry or life.
carol heuchan

Leonie

Re: Australian Written Championships

Post by Leonie » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:16 pm

And therein lies the reason that I have a bugbear with this. Some people aren't ok with that, and it isn't really a level playing field entering comps if some are getting outside help with their entries and others aren't, whether it's publicly or privately. Ok, privately no one knows, but does that make it right, or fair to the people who really believe it should be ALL their own work. Now the question I suppose is not so much is it acceptable, but rather is it ethical? And of course, how much is too much, like Kym asked; just where does it tip over into the unethical?
Last edited by Leonie on Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

manfredvijars

Re: Australian Written Championships

Post by manfredvijars » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:18 pm

... the piece is still the author's idea/concept/creation ... A critique is just that a critique. If the critique is acted on, then all that is done is a suggested re-arrangement of a few words (for which no payment or consideration is given or expected) - the piece is still the author's idea/concept/creation.

Myself, and others, sometimes run our pieces past eachother to see if there are any 'hangs' or 'catches'. I am often so closely involved with my piece that I can't see the broader view. I'll even run a piece past a complete stranger to guage a reaction ...

Is any piece totally our own?? Well, being brutally honest we must concede that we are 'influenced' by everything we see, hear, feel, taste and smell - and everyone we meet.

Terry
Posts: 2942
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:53 pm

Re: Australian Written Championships

Post by Terry » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:39 pm

I tend to agree with you Manfred, especially that point about being critiqued, It always amazes me how I can read a poem by someone else and see all or at least most of the faults, but miss them completely on my own efforts until a judge points them out to me, leaving me wondering how I missed them in the first place.
In my earlier days like everybody else I'd put a poem up and ask for a critique from anyone who cared to offer an opinion, but no one ever tried to alter my poem, a common suggestion was that the meter was out or that my punctuation was lousy (still is).

I suppose the other point worth considering is that one of the main ideas with the forum is to attract new members who have an interest in Bush Poetry and also wish to learn a bit about writing. our hope is that they will eventually join the ABPA.

Terry

Post Reply