ABPA - Australian Bush Poets Association

Tibooburra -
" when it's HOT.

It’s dead ly, dry and dust y,
far too hot to think.

Ev-en liz-ards carr-y wat-er-bagsto oft-en have a drink.

A scal-y creat-ure crossed the road, runn-in’ like a flash,

e-nough to be mis-tak-en for the ‘und-red met-re dash.

The bloke I ‘ad been yarn-in’ to, stand-in’ in the shade,

said

“See that scal-y critt-er go - he’s reall-y got it made”.

I asked

“ Is-n’t it un-us-u-al to see that kind-a thing ?"

hop-in’ he would talk.

“Yeah”, he said lac-on-ic all-y -


“us-u-all-y they walk”.

This is where the stressed (strong) syllables are placed in this poem. It's a great yarn & no doubt pleases many people when performed.

To adapt this poem into a correctly structured poem (& if you're so inclined) a potential award winner, it requires the following.

You have written it basically in the 'Iambic' structure. That is...one unstressed (weak) syll, one stressed (strong) syll, one weak, one strong & so on throughout. Your first stanza (incorrectly sometimes called a verse) dictates how the REST of the poem should be, structurally & rhyming.

1st line has 3 strong beats & 4 weak beats (syllables)
2nd. line has 3 strong beats & 2 weak.
3rd line has 5 strong & 4 weak.
4th line has 3 strong & 3 weak. (NOTE.It is incredibly difficult to execute showing all the bold etc in this window. It needs to be done in 'Word' which is a bit easier. So if anyone wants similar done, please email me direct at glennypoet at bigpond dot com)

So Jim, the syllable count is all over the shop, & doesn't maintain the meter, WHEREAS your stressed (strong) sylls are correct....except for 'usually' which is 4 syllables, where only 3 are needed, in the last line,.

This is how I would sort it. (I can't get this window to get line 1 outta being 2 lines, so see it as 1 line.)

It’s dead ly, dry and dusty and it’s
far too hot to think.

The liz-ards ev-en carr-y wat-er-bags to have a drink.

A scal-y creat-ure crossed the road and runn-in’ like a flash,

e-nough to be mis-tak-en for the ‘und-red met-re dash.

The bloke I ‘ad been yarn-in’ to, while stand-in’ in the shade,

said “See that scal-y critt-er go - he’s reall-y got it made”.

I asked, “Ain’t it un-us-u-al to see that kind-a thing ?"

I wait-ed ver-y pat-ient-ly just hop-in’ he would talk.

then, “Yeah”, he said lac-on-ic all-y - “norm-all-y they walk”.

BUT...you need another line inserted after....'kinda thing'...& I'm not into re-writing poets' work. I try to GUIDE them to that.

TIP: Many times I see the word 'usually' used & buggering up a line....'Normally' is a great substitute if the syll count only needs 3 sylls.

I have adapted your poem to be TRUE Iambic...1 weak, 1 strong, 1 weak, 1 strong...all the way through = every line has 7 strong sylls, & 7 weak sylls.

This little exercise has taken me an hour and a half....a little less if done on 'Word'....I'm happy to do it, as long as it does indeed help. Whenever it's possible for me, I provide you all with an 'on the spot tutor', so please realise what a bonus that is....I woulda given 'the crutch outta my best jeans' (quote croc) to have had that resource.
I suggest that if you are indeed really interested in learning that you create a folder on your desktop & plant any of these exchanges...from ALL the qualified tips that members post, smack into it. It supplements my tutorial & the other teachings from accomplished poets offered all the time.

Now....where's that cuppa & a Bex & a lie down Jim?

I just read these posts for the first time today, and frankly, I fail to understand how a thread can descend into this!!

Firstly, the thread was started by Dave requesting Glenny's opinion of his work. As Dave has had untold assistance from Glenny before, he is well aware of what type of advice she is likely to give him, and asked for it because of that. Therefore, this was always going to be a thread whereby Glenny gave her very valuable advice on getting the basics of the poem correct - in keeping with her expertise.

As such, she took the opportunity to explain and clear up some misunderstanding as to why a poem doesn't scan, even though the metre is correct. As per Maureens post, her explanation certainly helped Maureen along the way to having the penny 'drop' in regard to understanding stresses/metre, and no doubt helped clear the issue for others also. Therefore, her replies were not about 'taking the fun' out of writing, but about replying to a legitimate request, and sharing knowledge. It is this type of generous sharing - given so freely by so many of our foremost bush poets - that helps each one of us along our path, and allows those of us who wish to learn and excel in that craft, to do so.
As Glenny so rightly says - why wouldn't you be having fun just because you employed those basic techniques??? Personally, I have always found myself challenged by learning and trying to perfect the techniques that I need in order to produce a style of poetry that I like to write, and that I feel is readable, and conveys the emotions/images/stories that I wish to get across.
I believe that, no matter what you do in your life, you always need to ensure you have a sound knowledge of the basic techniques.

I remember a number of years ago trying to teach the basics of horse riding skills to a group of children who did not understand the need to learn those skills, and whose parents were more content in letting the kids do what they wanted to do than in ensuring they learnt the skills necessary to ride well - and as such, being able to keep control of their horses to keep everyone safe. Sure, they could hoon around, stay on the horse through some bucks etc - if they had a natural balance - and generally enjoy the ride and have a great time. But when it came down to being around other horses/riders, or riding in a more controlled environment - they were a danger to themselves, their horses and anyone around because they did not have the basic skills to keep their horses under good control. It was not until they were either old enough to understand that they were better off being able to take control, or their parents realised how much safer they were if they were in full control, that they took an interest in learning those skills.

Now, I'm certainly not suggesting that not learning the basic techniques of poetry is going to make one a danger to themselves, or to others!!! But I guess what I am saying is what Glenny has already said - if you take the time to get the basics under control, and keep practicing to get them perfected, then you will eventually employ those techniques automatically, and you can then really fly free and start playing around with the many other techniques that are available, such as those that Neville spoke of - trochaic and pyrrhic substitution - and many others. Because yes Neville - these are a legitimate form of written metre, but ones which a poet needs to understand before they can employ them effectively. And how can one understand these if they don't understand the basics of written poetry. Will Ogilvie varies his metre quite considerably in some of his poems, but the average person would not even pick it up, because they flow so beautifully. To me, it is certainly fun to learn and play around within the guidelines - or rules - and produce something that I feel is worthwhile. (Not that I have ventured too far into the different techniques as yet!! I stay safe!)

Jim, you clearly asked Glenny for comment on where the stresses would sit in your poem, and she responded in good faith. Because of the nature of the thread, she showed how you would turn that into a correctly structured poem (keeping in mind, we are looking within the realms of bush poetry guidelines at this stage!) and convert it to a potential award winner - if one were so inclined!
She by no means said that that was how you had to do it, or that it would be a lousy poem if you didn't follow her advice - she merely took the opportunity to use it as an example to share her expertise with all participants in this thread. Your request to her no doubt led her to believe that you wouldn't mind her doing that because, at the end of the day, it is your poem to do with as you like, and no one would presume to tell you how to present it. So, to state that you are 'appalled' at how it reads is a rather 'over the top' comment for something that I, and no doubt several other members, found very informative. I do not believe that anyone has denigrated your work at all - indeed, the only comment made on it was Glenny's "I thought your poem was quite funny!"

It is disappointing when a thread deteriorates to such a point that it leaves an uncomfortable feeling in everyone's mind. I fully understand that every poet on the forum has different ideas on what constitues a 'good' poem, and certainly many of the poets write in several different genres. Whether one writes in bush poetry style, free verse, rap, or any of the myriad genres of poetry is irrelevant - there are wonderful poets in each genre. However, there are also many different forums for each of these genres. This forum is dedicated to Bush Poetry - under the definition as set out on the home page, and the one that our organisation recognises as 'Bush Poetry'. Therefore, in my mind, poetry posted on this forum, and discussions and knowledge sharing about 'bush poetry' should be in keeping with what we are here to promote. If we also write and promote free verse, or any other genre of poetry, then we do so on a forum that is dedicated to that particular genre.
We certainly do not go on a forum dedicated to one genre, and promptly consider everyone else narrowminded and ignorant because they are not open to a different genre that we feel we should be able to post. Unfortunately, that is what most of the more heated arguments on this site come down to - an intolerance to members trying to learn and perfect the very style of poetry that this site is dedicated to.
No one is telling anyone how they should write their poetry or what rules they should follow. We are all here because we enjoy 'Bush poetry' (even if we also enjoy other forms of poetry!) and we are looking to produce - on this site - the very best 'bush poetry' we can

Please don't let our egos get the better of us by trying to put each other down, nor criticise those who are trying to help us. At the end of the day, we are here to share a love of poetry, and to improve our craft, and help others where we can. We are not here to judge each other, to impose our views on others, nor to prove anything to other forum members. There is no need to feel that we have to justify why we write the way we do - but there certainly is a need to respect the fact that we all have a choice. And my choice to be on this particular forum is because I want to write and read bush poetry - as per the abpa definition. And I would ask that everyone respect my right to learn the intricacies of the craft of bush poetry from the experts without turning it into an argument that does no one any good.
At the same time, I will respect anyones choice to write in whatever style they wish to write - so long as they find the appropriate forum on which to post it.

And Glenny, thank you for taking the time to share you knowledge with us. You and Croc were the first people who helped me when I started writing poetry, and it was your encouragement and sharing of expertise that has enabled me to improve my writing. I have a long way to go, and many new techniques and skills to learn, but I very much enjoy the challenge of turning out a piece of work that others can relate to. If my work touches the heart of just one person, I have achieved what I set out to do. However, our learning never stops, and I hope to be learning from the likes of yourself for many years to come!! (Please, please....... teach me to write humour!!! )

Catchya
Irene

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