What children are writing about

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Maureen K Clifford
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Re: What children are writing about

Post by Maureen K Clifford » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:42 am

and perhaps therein lies the problem - I wonder how many of these kids have even stepped off the bitumen much less ventured out into the bush. And despite the number of 4WD's on our roads - a huge % of them would be show ponies not work horses as well and god forbid they get a scratch or a stone chip from a fair dinkum out back road.

So perhaps the word 'bush' in our title has well and truly outlived its use by date.
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Re: What children are writing about

Post by Neville Briggs » Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:08 pm

David Campbell wrote:Then there's the need for consistent metre and rhyme, and
This the part I still don't get David. How did this idea of form become a "need ".
Neville
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David Campbell
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Re: What children are writing about

Post by David Campbell » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:30 pm

Neville, is this a semantic question about the word “need”, or is it about the background to the development of the ABPA’s definition of bush poetry? Here’s the current definition: “Australian Bush Poetry is poetry with accurate rhyme and metre about Australia, Australian History, Australians and/or the Australian way of life.”

If you’re asking about the use of the word “need”, what advice would you give to an outsider about the “accurate rhyme and metre” provision…without using “need”? If your question is about the origins and development of the definition, I don’t know the answer.

David

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Re: What children are writing about

Post by william williams » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:32 pm

Since when has the colour of your skin or your name not made you an Aussie.
Go up north you Townies and check the names of people. Many have a Chinees name
Or an Afghani name or an Aboriginal name and were amongst the bravest soldiers that we had
And they were only one generation old. Modern people may be three or more generations but that don’t make them Australians. Their heart does, along with their speech, actions be they city dwellers or country people bush poetry is for them not necessarily being rhyme and metre but stories, poems of Australia this country and its people. There is not one of you who has written a poem,(story) that could not be interoperated as being in another country,

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Maureen K Clifford
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Re: What children are writing about

Post by Maureen K Clifford » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:55 pm

I don't think anyone is debating ethnicity or colour Bill - rather the fact that to many Australians the 'bush' has no relationship to them - Australian Beach Poetry might be more up their alley. There are heaps of Australians that have never ventured west at all - they are coastal fringe dwellers, and some of them have names like Smith, and Jones :lol: . And I agree with you being a fair dinkum Australian has everything to do with what is in your heart and soul and how you relate to your country and where your country sits with you and has very little to do with where you were born or what your ethnicity is.
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Re: What children are writing about

Post by Neville Briggs » Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:41 pm

My question David is about how did this definition become a requirement. What authority decided what bush poetry is, and further who decided , and on what authority did someone decide what bush poetry must be.
I can figure out how people had a general notion of the appearance of so called bush poetry, I still can't work out how these notions became laws and rules that must be enforced.

I can understand how a group like ours might agree to do things in a certain way so that we have a sort of collective identity, but on whose authority does the agreed style become particular rather than general.
Neville
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Re: What children are writing about

Post by Bob Pacey » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:46 pm

I don't have a problem with what I write I'm Australian and I write poetry. that to me is enough.


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Re: What children are writing about

Post by Stephen Whiteside » Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:13 am

I'll throw in a few thoughts to try to answer Neville's question.

In my mind, it mostly relates to Banjo Paterson. He wrote in rhyme and metre, and is now seen as the archetypal 'bush poet'.

Much of the appeal of rhyme and metre relates to the joy of hearing it read aloud. The rhyme and metre also makes it very much easier to memorise. These poems were recited from memory around many a campfire in the bush in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. In the absence of any other form of popular entertainment (the occasional harmonica, accordion or whistle would no doubt also appear), this form of poetry became enormously popular.

It seems pretty clear that Paterson, Lawson, Dennis, et al. were also enormously influenced by the rhyming verse of Kipling. What induced Kipling to write in rhyme and metre is something I have not studied.

Of course, there were many poets who were contemporaries of Paterson who did not write in rhyme and metre. An interesting case in point is John Shaw Neilson. Neilson was a sublime poet, and as much a 'bushie' as anyone, but his poems have never really been embraced by the bush poetry movement, because they do not rollick along like Paterson's. They are introspective, subtle works, and often relatively inaccessible.

Another was John Le Gay Brereton. As I recall, he was essentially a writer of free verse back in the 1890s. I don't recall any of his poetry, and I doubt if any of it was performed around drovers' camps.
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David Campbell
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Re: What children are writing about

Post by David Campbell » Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:44 am

Neville, the definition is just a form of words which has presumably evolved over the years in an attempt to indicate what this association's on about. Individual poetry groups can interpret it any way they want. Is the "authority" important? Do you want names? Does it matter? At issue here is the nature of the image the wording currently presents, whether it is effective, and what might be done to broaden its appeal as we look to the future. Bob's happy with what he writes, and that's fine, but we're on the inside looking out, and, in line with the theme of this thread, I'm trying to nut out what might encourage the likes of the Ipswich and Dorothea Mackellar children to have a go at rhyming verse. Some have commented that young people can move to more traditional styles as they get older, but those who were teenagers 10 or 20 years ago don't seem to be doing that. Not in our competitions, in the magazine, or on this website.

So I agree with Maureen that the word "bush", despite its proud history, might have had its day. Are the assumptions that inevitably come with it counterproductive in terms of membership? That thought will upset quite a few people, but difficult conversations are necessary when you look at the trends evident in this thread. If the way others (particularly the younger generations) see "bush" poetry is not enticing them to write it, do we try to do something about it or leave things as they are?

Stephen's comment about John Shaw Neilson is worth noting. Neilson had a really tough life on the land, yet his poetry was a far cry from that of Paterson and Lawson. 'The Orange Tree' is probably his best-known poem (http://www.poetrylibrary.edu.au/poets/n ... ee-0037065) Would it be considered Australian "bush" poetry under our current definition?

David

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Re: What children are writing about

Post by Neville Briggs » Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:01 am

Thanks for taking the time to reply Stephen. I don't know anything about John Le Gay Brereton. I looked him up. He seems to have been mainly a prose writer. Interestingly it is said that he was a good friend and collaborator of Henry Lawson.
David Campbell wrote:Neville, the definition is just a form of words which has presumably evolved over the years in an attempt to indicate what this association's on about.
Certainly I understand that. I don't get how a description becomes a prescription.

I think that the example of John Shaw Neilson is very apt. We had a discussion on this forum about The Orange Tree, it is clear that our mob would not think it to be a bush poem.

Up our way in a little rural town ( with a strong country culture ) there is a very keen writers group that I heard were wanting to include a poetry component in their presentations. I heard that they will not accept bush poetry on the grounds that " bush poetry has been done to death ". That's food for thought.
Neville
" Prose is description, poetry is presence " Les Murray.

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