Is bush poetry too.... same old same.

[Neville Briggs]

I was reading a book of bush poems and I noticed how there were many and varied stories, interesting, amusing, tragic ,historic, all those things. But the form of the poems were....all the same. As Manfred has said, iambic sevens. A1,a2,a3,a4,..a5a6a7,
deedum deedum deedum deedum..deedum deedum deedA..

These works seem to have been made on the premise that the form; the metre and rhyme, is a framework that the story is built on. As long as you have the framework, then you can put on any subject or tale that you like, as varied as you like in content. And the understanding is that interest will follow the creativity of the story.

I am convinced that this is the wrong way round.
It is the story that is the framework , and then creative use of metre, rhyme, alliteration, assonance, simile and metaphor builds on the story to produce the poem, which is a dance of language that performs with feeling, passion and emotion.
The example of this is opera. The stories on opera are usually quite thin and trite. The plot in opera is secondary. It is just a framework on which the composer constructs a presentation of music and singing which is designed to be as moving and passionate as the composer can achieve. Poetry works the same.

Manfred's literary friend accuses the bush poets of being boring and predictable. That can't mean the stories of bush poetry because they are varied, unpredictable at times, very funny and historically detailed, plenty of them are not boring. But if the friend is referring to the poetic devices, then we had better look hard at what is being done there, do we want a thousand poems; all different stories, but all sung to the tune of, Mulga Bill's Bicycle.

[r.magnay]

Though sometimes a little controversial Neville, your observations make a lot of sense...to me anyway...

[Bob Pacey]

Na Ross Nev gets bored and stirs a bit but I do think we have discussed his scenario soooooooo many times without result.


Only makes everyone else bored as well,

I'm tired going to the blanket show,

Bob

[Peely]

I guess that iambic metre tends to dominate in bush poetry because it is possibly the easiest metre to write with in English. A line with seven feet is probably one of the easiest to use to form the basic lines of a poem as well and has been the traditional line of choice for storytelling in ballads (hence why it is also often referred to as 'ballad metre'). Coupling those two things together, you are probably going to find them dominating in the writing of bush poets if we are in fact telling stories through our verse.

You will probably find that it is the 'go to' line and metre for many poets because poems can be constructed quickly and easily that way as well, particularly if the lines are only couplet rhymed with no internal rhyming. I know myself that if I want to get something written quickly, it is probably my method of choice too. When I was younger, I tended to have lines in tetrameter (four feet per line) as my default and when I have tried it again in more recent times, I have found it interesting and have wondered why I haven't used it more often.

It doesn't hurt to try different methods of structuring your stanzas and once you get the hang of writing to a particular structure, the poem can come together quicker than you might have imagined in the first place. I know this is what I have found when I have experimented with different structures.

It is also well worth trying to write in other metres as well for a little bit of variety and again, once you have the hang of the metre, the poems can come together quickly.

One thing that I have noticed from reading in at least one textbook on writing rhymed and metred poetry that was not written by someone from within the bush poetry circles is that metric variation within a line of a stanza is accepted and doesn't necessarily need to be repeated in each other stanza of a poem. If you have read enough older bush poetry, you will notice some of these variations in those writings (I have found some in the writings of Banjo Paterson, Henry Lawson, CJ Dennis and John O'Brien amongst others). There are some that would pass these off as faults, but if poetic intent is taken into account, they often add greatly to the poem. The key to doing this is to not overdo the variations that the initial sound line of the poem is lost. I have experimented with these sorts of variations in the past as well but haven't entered the resulting poems into competition for the reason that they don't meet the definitions used by many judges in bush poetry circles as to what is considered as 'consistent metre'.

I guess that we as bush poets need to challenge ourselves more to try different structures and metres and hopefully we can be seen as being fresh rather than 'same old... same old...".

[Neville Briggs]

Goodo Ross

Just to be precise Bob, my post is not a scenario. I am sorry if anybody reading a poetry site gets bored with discussion of poetry.

[Neville Briggs]

Very well said Peely.

I pick up on two things you have brought up. You mention how the ballad form can be used to make poems quickly and easily. You mention a couple of times doing poems quickly. Why should we want to do things quickly, doesn't it take time to get something like a poem just right. What's the rush.

You also mention not making experimental variations so as to conform with competition requirements. Does this mean that bush poetry competitions are not about creative writing but about conformity to a narrow standard of " correctness". Is bush poetry competition working against imaginative progress in bush poetry.

[Peely]

Poems certainly don't necessarily have to be put together quickly, Neville. Sometimes though, if an idea is there, there is the temptation to get things started and to try to get things finished while it is still fresh in your mind. Not all of what I write is written quickly. I have poems that have been written over several years because not all of the ideas needed to finish the poem were there when it was started. Once something is finished, you will probably end up making several revisions anyway . There will be times that you do have to get things sorted quickly, for example when you are working to a deadline that might only be a short one and if this is the case, you will probably work with a simple, proven structure.

One of the reasons why strict conformity to metre in written competitions has possibly come to be observed is that it is an easy way (provided that the judge has a good feel for metre) to cull a number of entries from contention. This is why it is important that we have judges that can recognise the use of poetic devices and poetic intent (and we do have some great judges in both of those regards). Merely winning written competitions alone doesn't necessarily guarantee this and this is why the ABPA needs to consider if other methods of obtaining judges are out there (though there may need to be a large amount of groundwork done to put these methods into place).

[manfredvijars]

... has anyone else noticed that in our story poems, they comonly fall into two predominant themes, "Someone comes to town", and "Someone goes on a journey"?

Are there any other themes that fall outside these two that anyone may have encountered?

[manfredvijars]

The sonnet has been considered to be the, "Perfect poetic form". Maybe that's why it has endured for over 700 years. I can't help but wonder, how many sonnets have been written in that time, which begs the question how many sonnets (out of 700 years of writing) have endured? And those that have endured - why?

The same could be asked of our (short) sojourn into iambic heptametre. We bush poets know and understand this form and can do it in our sleep. Competition judges (if this is important to you) do tire of "Dying Stockmen" and "Saddle" stories UNLESS they are exceptional. Poetic devices can be the icing on the cake, however if the fundamentals are not there (beginning, middle, end, plot and story (not forgetting grammar)) no amount of icing will resurrect the piece.

Doing things to please others is like feeding a dragon with an insatiable appetite. There is a constant danger of getting burned. It's the same with trying to second guess judges in an effort to please them (to win a competition), which often leads to disappointment.

Understanding our craft and writing through that understanding, can lead to writing exceptional poetry, and maybe - just maybe, some of our 'exceptional' pieces may endure ...

[Maureen K Clifford]

The cat sat on the mat is still going strong I hear in some circles