Choosing the right words.

[Neville Briggs]

How do you choose the right words for poems ?

After looking up the dictionary, looking up the thesaurus, or just just thinking out words from memory do we then go for the word that ' fits ' the rhyme or metre, as long as it generally has the meaning of the idea that is being presented.

I have started going through my old ' poems ' and changing words and phrases that in the past I had chosen because they had the correct meaning and had the right metre or rhyme but now I think that I can see that they are woefully no good for the sense or feeling of what I was wanting to convey.
I have come to this after trying to see and learn how fine writers go about the business of writing.

I suppose you could call it, searching for the " wow factor "
I'm still searching.

One marvellous example that I always think of, is George Orwell's famous passage in his essay Politics and the English Language.
He wrote out some verses from The Book of Ecclesiastes.

I returned, and saw under the sun,
that the race is not to the swift,
nor the battle to the strong,
neither bread to the wise,
nor yet riches to men of understanding,
nor yet favour to men of skill;
but time and chance happens to them all.

then Orwell translated the above into contemporary jargon;

Objective consideration of contemporary phenomena compels the conclusion that success or failure in competitive activities exhibits no tendency to be commensurate with innate capacity, but that a considerable element of the unpredictable must inevitably be taken into account.

The second one is flat as a pancake. It means the same and it is accurate in stating the idea.

So why is it a failure ?

I am convinced that we need to be able to answer that question to get the ' wow' factor into our verse. I fear that I have had too much of Orwell's jargon example in my writing.
There's a lot to be done.

I shall keep looking and learning. I might get it.

[Vic Jefferies]

Precisely Neville, precisely.
In my opinion you have touched upon what is often so wrong with bush poems: there is no poetry.
We like to think of our brand of poetry as being simple and easily understood however many forget that in telling the story metre and rhyme have to be supported by well chosen words and expressions. This is what distinguishes poetry from verse and prose.

[Glenny Palmer]

Hellooo Neville. When working on crafting a piece I sometimes ask myself ''what exactly am I trying to say?'' Then I write out what I am trying to say, within a line or a stanza, in simple prose. If you then write out how that actually makes you feel...again in simple prose... it's surprising how much easier it is then to convert that into lyrical verse.
With your ever-enquiring mind being predominant, may I also caution you to not give yourself analysis paralysis by lingering on each resulting line/stanza during the actual creative process. Leave that until after you have your first draft completed or you run the risk of Logic overtaking the Creative. If I was teaching you to swim...& you kept stopping to check that your last 3 strokes were 'correct'...well...you'd sink!! So do the pool's full lap first & then check the re-play video to critique your performance. Goodo? Hope this helps.
Cheeers
Glenny

[Bob Pacey]

Drowning in big words would be heaven for Nev I think Glenny !


Bobbo

[Zondrae]

... and my bit,

If I try to use a big word, with which I am unfamiliar, it sounds awkward. (and if I have ever seen a word that looks like the meaning then it is 'awkward') I admit sometimes I have to change a word, but usually if I dredge through my mind - I find a substitute. The more I write the more a list of available words seems to build in the memory. Even when I am just musing (without pen or keyboard,) I find myself flipping through lists of words that have similar uses.
To fit the metre, on occasion, it is necessary to find a two syllable word to replace a three syllable word with similar meaning, not always easy to do. Therein lies the craft.

[Neville Briggs]

Marty. I read your reply with interest. If I read you right, I think you mean that plain language is something to strive for, but also there is a place for unusual words. It depends on what you are trying to express, as you say, (I think).
And I think you and I are agreed, use the best word but work out what you are trying to say rather than how some preconceived structure might be fitted.

Vic. I know where you are coming from, (I hope ) But I think you and I would agree that some forms of bush poetry, particularly the performance entertaining stuff doesn't need to be too fancy with words, it's the delivery, the story and humour or pathos that counts. ( it pains me to say that, but I have to be realistic )

Glenny. Thanks for that. Very helpful. What you say is what I am trying to do. I am going over old stuff to revise and hopefully prune some of the dead wood.
I agree fully with your advice about writing and rewriting. my bush poetry friend ,Trish Patterson keeps telling me that a poem is not written, it is rewritten.

Bob. For some people , words longer than, beer, footy or sex are long words.
Words are the tools of thinking, the more words a person has in their collection, the more their ability to think critically, reasonably and clearly will develop.
WE HOPE

I saw an interesting article once where a woman teacher was appointed to a mine site to teach literacy to the workers.
The workers at the mine site had a lot of trouble with hatreds and fights.

The teacher found that many of the workers were almost illiterate and after she had coached them in reading and language, she found that the incidence of hostility and brawling became a lot less.
The conclusion is that people who have the words to deal with issues are less likely to become frustrated and resort to violence. Some may dispute the conclusion, but I found it very interesting.

MY conclusion. Don't knock vocabulary building.
Language is what makes us human. The more we can speak with skill, the more human we become. That's why we want to be poets isn't it ??

Zondrae. That's why modern poets have gone for the ' free verse ' it's much more suitable to arrange your own metre to give a bigger range of words. We have set ourselves the problem of working within set forms, so we just have to keep plugging away, no matter how hard.

[keats]

Nev, why does it pain you that people perform humorous poetry? And I agree with Marty that the use of such big words look like an intellectual ego trip and do nothing short of leaving the poem sterile. Perhaps in the written word but when performing it just sounds like you are an intellectual trying to preach to the dumb. Doesn't work. Oh, and don't listen to teachers! I come from a family of them and they are all full of it!! lol

Neil

[Bob Pacey]

Beer Footy and sex ? oh hang on footy has five letters ? mmm maybe I can use just the foot part and ball as a second word .



Bob

[Neville Briggs]

I knew you'd understand Bob.


Neil. It doesn't pain me that people perform humorous poetry. I am a bit of a dreamer/ idealist I suppose, I wish that somehow poetry could be performed as POETRY and people appreciated the subtlety and skill of poetic language like they used to or at least how I imagine they used to.

So I think it is a pity that in performances that I have seen , poetry seems to take second place to the presentation, the attention getting jokes and antics, like dressing up.
But I think you and I are in agreement, that.... that is the reality.
In to-days world the performance poet is competing for the audience with TV and club acts and musical spectacles etc, so if we want an audience we are stuck with "poetry plus", if you like. It just pains me to admit that it has to be like that, but I admit it.
I suppose it pains me because I can't do it and I'm left out I know because of experience. I just can't do the act and I feel the audience is lost to me.

I don't think that well crafted language is an intellectual ego trip.
Obscurantism in verse is probably more likely to be judged that way I think. I would argue that it's not the size of the words that necessarily makes verse obscure but a lot of things contribute to that problem.

I don't despise poetry humorists, I just wish we could have the comic acts and the poetry
for poetry's sake side by side, both equally accepted for a broad audience, but I don't think that can happen.
The reason why I don't think it can happen is because I see the success of people like yourself, Greg North, Graeme Johnson, Carol Heuchan and others but I don't see the highly regarded bush poetry written winning entries being performed to acclaim in various bush poetry breakfasts or festival events. et al. ( I could be wrong on that, correct if I am wrong there )

What's the answer? I don't know .

Don't get perturbed about my opinions. Just the musing of a dreamer.



p.s. it certainly pains me to hear humorous verse that isn't humorous.

[Neville Briggs]

Fair enough Marty. That's sounds encouraging. Neil has said some time ago that we owe the performance mob a great debt for reviving bush poetry, I couldn't agree more.