Lost focus ?

[Heather]

If we are chasing prize money then we are most definitely in the wrong game! Money has never been a motivation for me and I suspect most others in entering any competition. I take great pride, not to mention effort and time in getting my poems not only technically correct but in making them something I can be proud of - something that I am first and foremost happy with. If they do well in a competition then it makes me happy that someone else thought they were good enough to be noteworthy and I suppose there's at least a little bit of ego in all of us and it is nice to have your work noticed. I never expected to win a comp because I think I write a bit differently to most bush poets but if I can be up in the top 6 or 8, then I am happy that someone is taking notice of my writing.

If you exclude the good writers from competitons then what have the rest of us to aim for - mediocre? First of all it isn't fair to say that because you are good at what you do you can't have a go. Would we do that to our sports men and women - absolutely not - we encourage them to do even better. The good ones give the rest of us something to aim for.

Bill I think some poets actually try to eek a living out of their poetry and they are simply protecting their copyright by not posting where anyone can copy. Just today I was emailed a Bill Kearns poem. Bill sells his books -so why would anyone buy a book when they can get it free off the net? I have tried at times to find poems by some poets on the net and haven't had any luck finding them so they have obviously protected their work very closely and that is their right to do so.

And now I talk too much Bobby!

Heather

[keats]

Here here Heather. Bill, with the prize money on offer in written comps, no one is making a living off them. 5 years?? Serious? Takes all the quality writers out of the equation and then, according to your recipe, leaves only up and comers and I will tell you from experience, there goes that particular comp. good writers need encouragement to enter comps, not penalties.

Neil

[Irene]

Sorry, I have to agree with Marty!! There are too many poets holding back from posting poems simply to meet the rules.
I believe there is far too much emphasis put onto the competitions (despite the fact that I organise two of them - and I want you all to support them!!! )- you should feel comfortable sharing your poems and still be able to enter a comp. Competitions would not exist without the poets to enter, so it is the poets that hold the power to have things changed.
I agree that boycotting the competitions is not the answer, because we want to encourage more comps, not less. However, I believe you should post your poems, and when you want to enter a competition, only to find that you cannot enter a previously published poem - write to the organisers, explain that while you would love to enter their competition, and support them, you write your poetry with the intention of getting bush poetry out into the wider reaches of our community, and so you are not prepared to sit on poems just to enter a competition. You could then suggest that they may consider changing their guidelines to those already suggested here, and that way, both the poets and competition organisers are doing their bit towards getting more people interested in promoting bush poetry - which will lead on to more people entering their comps. If every poet who believes the rule should be changed did this, the competition organisers will have to take notice. Even if you have a new poem to enter, a letter with your poem making the suggestion that they consider changing the guidelines would not go astray. They may not even have considered the detrimental effect that such criteria can have on our ability to promote the craft.
The idea that the judges may recognise a poem and therefore judge a poem up or down is demeaning to our judges - who I believe are of the highest integrity. Besides, in performance competitions, the judges know exactly who they are judging - and no one doubts their ability to be fair. And there is no such restrictions on what poems you perform in a competition - so what makes a written comp so different?? A poet can perform the same poem in numerous competitions - without prejudice!

Like Davids thread before - publish/post and be damned!!!!! You have the power make the changes!!!

Catchya
Irene

[Maureen K Clifford]

Well said Irene

[warooa]

I dunno, Marty . . . I reckon the forum, like any living thing , is an evolving beast. Sure it'll go places you don't care for at times, but you've gotta simply take the good with the notso.

Sure no one posts there A grade stuff in the hope of snagging a big one, but there's still a healthy dose of poems going up in users, members, WWRT and the workshop. There's great foood for thought items always chewed over and happy banter as always.

We've all benefited hugely from this forum, so as Maureen said it's up to us to keep it going strong for all contributors old and new.

I reckon if there was some award to a forum for converting a bunch of numpty wannabe's into award winners at the top of their field - the ABPA forum would be a front runner.

Cheers, Marty (the gracious, thankful unwhinging one )

[David Campbell]

Well said, Heather, Neil and Irene!

David

[william williams]

Flammin hell? Firstly at no time did I say that anybody was making a living out of poetry
and secondly, It was a suggestion only and it was meant for that comp only not all comps
and if you care to insinuate that all the other remaining poets are second rate. And for fear of being repremanded once again ?????

BILL WILLIAMS

[manfredvijars]

Life has it's high points - and low, crowded moments and quiet. There are "Look at me" moments as well as 'shy'. The Forum is populated by real living people living their lives, and just like any other social group, has it's own dynamic - it's a living entity (just like Marty North says).

What is important is that everyone is writing. People can share or withhold as is their right. There is no requirement that people MUST post. We have a swag of folks that never post - but regularly look in.

For myself, my writing is not as prolific as earlier years. I now revisit some of my earlier stuff and cringe. I've also noticed that I'm a bit more selective with subject matter and I take my time developing my pieces. That also means letting them 'percolate' for a while. There's an added conflict for me initially in deciding whether a piece will be a poem or a lyric.

I reckon the Forum will be fine as long as people engage with each other, for no other reason than they 'just want to'.

This is a great spot ... Stay tuned - The poetry will come ...

Luv youse all,

Manni

[Heather]

Bill, you misunderstand. I was simply explaining why some poets do not post their poems on the forum and one of the reasons is that some of them make a living from it or are protecting the copyright of their work.

I was not suggesting for a minute that poets other than winners of competitions are second rate Bill - however, those that are consistently winning are obviously at the top of their field and those who want to do well in competitions need to beat them - it's no different to cricketers vying to get into the Australian team - it doesn't mean those who didn't make it are no good. I also meant to point out that there are novice events for newer writers to enter.

Irene I agree that a judge should be able to judge a written poem even if they know the author or have seen the poem before - it's should be a matter of which is the better poem on the day. I had a person ask to look at one of my poems once and I told him maybe he shouldn't see it because he might judge it one day and he was very insulted at the suggestion that he wouldn't be able to judge the best poem on the day.

Wouldn't it be better to have the ABPA write to the competition/festival organisers - before the events and see if the rules can be changed? We could add weight to it by adding our names (rise up and petition poets!), or we could have a letter drawn up by the ABPA which we could all flood them with

[Dennis N O'Brien]

Um....Interesting comments: "bugger all poetry apart from...etc, boring, stale, a bunch of numpty(?) wannabe's, no one posts there A grade stuff " .
Just a few quotes from various member's comments.

I had no idea the forum was held in such low regard.

Ah, how can I get this across....?

Firstly it shouldn't be assumed that all who post here wish to enter the world of bush poetry
competitions and therefore withhold poetry from the forum due to the rules.
Bully for you if you do but not everyone forms an opinion on the quality of a poem based
on its success or otherwise in a competition. I see the forum along with my blogs as a means
to get my poetry onto the net where the reading public can form an opinion.

I recently had a poem selected for an anthology by a Spanish University only because they had
seen it on the net.

I'm glad this was brought up as there were obviously some frustrations bubbling away and I suppose
it is best that they bubbled to the surface.
However, I now have to think seriously about whether I will continue to post on the forum.