WA Chanpionships Written Results

[Maureen K Clifford]

Subject matter harsh but what a delight it was to read your poem Marty - a worthy winner - well done you - and the 'profanity' didn't worry me at all because it was just so totally in context with the situation. Totally agree with both David and the Judges summing up of that.
Congratulations Marty - it's a bloody ripper. Loud applause from me

[Glenny Palmer]

Yes indeed, thank you David. Very well explained.

It is not usual for a competition judge to become involved in any post results objections due to the entry condition of ‘’The judge’s decision is final and no correspondence will be entered into.’’ However, in this case I feel bound to respond for the sake of harmony, and in defence of Marty’s right to be justifiably applauded for his fine achievement.

In hindsight, I would have been better advised to label the ‘’offending’’ word as ‘’vulgar’’ rather than ‘’profane.’’ While I also absolutely frown upon the use of profanity in our craft, this word is in common use in our Australian vernacular to no great offence that I can identify.

Martin Pattie is a fine and valued member of our fellowship and the fact that he withheld posting his winning entry on Remembrance Day testifies to his inherent dignity and respect for all.

I suggest that, in general, before any strident criticisms are circulated that it is best to wait and read the poem in question before doing so, if indeed the objector then still feels the need to express any vociferous opinion.

I do hope that we can now all get back to harmoniously congratulating Marty as deserved, and to supporting each other in the pursuit of our much loved craft.

(Ms) Glenny Palmer

[alongtimegone]

Just read your poem Marty. What a beauty. Congrats. on the win.
Wazza

[Gary Harding]

Hmmmm an interesting WABP comp thread guys.. and thank you for the remarks Glenny.

My comments related to a judge stating that wording in a poem was "a profanity" (only one though so that's ok!) and then went on to Award it a first prize. I had a problem with that. Sorry.

Apparently the Judge's statement was incorrect and misleading. Now it is no longer profane. It is vulgar.

I remarked on it precisely as the Judge reported it. As a profanity. I do not need to read the context in which it was written to reject it. No context validates it.

Yep, just so you know this Newbie well, my Opinion is that profanity and vulgarity too does not belong and there is simply never a case of it being "appropriate". No subjective assessment required. No grey areas in the name of artistic expression.

Thus I take great issue with the Judge of this WABP competition. I am offended by vulgarity... of any sort!

I certainly admire David for standing on his digs when he was asked to change wording in a Bush Poem.

But then.. in their defense I also admire the organisers of the competition for standing on their digs too and enforcing the language standards that they perceive as being Generally Acceptable... context or not. It is THEIR competition after all.

Surely it is not particularly clever to use bad or vulgar language in Bush Poetry. It's dumb. Some folk with "old-fashioned" and unfashionable standards find it offensive, and if only in deference to those folk and/or Ladies it must be excluded... and the act kept clean.

Poetry of and for the People is for ALL the people, not just for the supporters of profanity... or vulgarity.

Surely it is skill with words and poetic talent that counts, not shock value??

As I say, if want to hear swearing I will go down to the pub... if I want to read beautifully crafted poems by talented poets... I will come to the ABPA forum of course...

The Bryan Kelleher Literary Award encourages Young people to write! I would love to recommend they visit this forum to learn, but ..... if vulgarity and profanity are endorsed, then how can I... ?

Regardless of what others may do, I can guarantee with great pride that my own work will be free of ANY form of offensive language. Full stop. Especially profanity.. or vulgarity! Rightly or wrongly, I will endeavour to use the vast and rich store of words offered by the English language to express myself poetically, without resorting to shock or expletives to get my message across. Nobody will ever be offended by my poetical work, or written language here. Bush does NOT mean rough, swearing, profanity or vulagrity. It means skill with words. Nice words.

What did The Man From Snowy River do when the wild bush horses were escaping? did he say " Oh **** "
Not at all!! he swung his stockwhip round and gave a cheer!! Good for him!

It is very disappointing to me that the use of profanity.. and yes vulgarity finds such overwhelming support here in the ABPA. That it can indeed be considered justifiable. Not a courageous word against it. Ah well.. it would be a dull world if we all agreed!

In the end well hopefully, like Lawson and Paterson, we can disagree in all good poetic mateship.... still hump our swags together on the track....

"Let us go together droving, and returning, if we live,
Try to understand each other while we reckon up the div" ABP

[keats]

Loved it Marty P. Great and powerful poem. Anybody complaining about one 'obscene' word must not watch TV, follow politics, sport or listen in general in society today. It was powerfully placed, not like some comedians and singers I know!

Keep up the great work.

Neil

[Bob Pacey]

I still have not worked out what the offending word was !!!!!!


Bob

[warooa]

It's a fair and valid point you make Gary, and all kudos to you for sticking strong to your beliefs and values. None of us ever have to use any vulgar or profane language (whether in our writing or in life in general) but its a choice we can make. As Marty said a well placed word can add to a poem, and I agree.

On that point, if I received that poem back from the judges telling me it great but discounted due to the harsh language, I would simply cop it on the chin, as David did with his poem he refused to censor.

This is an ongoing, and very valid debate that has been rolling along since my ealiest days on this forum. As you said, Gary . . . we agree to disagree but can still walk the same track.

Cheers, Marty

[manfredvijars]

Goodonya Marty ... a terrific piece, over 500 words and each one meticulously chosen - Kudos to you Mate for excellent, topical craftsmanship.

As for the 'offence' ...
There are those of us here who have worked in rough bush camps and spent time in Military barracks. Yet for all the rich colourful language that blokes are immersed in, those same blokes are nature's gentlemen in public and in mixed company. Others have worked in city offices where some of our sweet ladies outshine the blokes in the barracks for their choice of vernacular.
Was I offended? More to the point, should I be?

I'd given up a long time ago, trying to second-guess another's "sensitivities", besides, I don't have a crystal ball that peers into the minds of others. If someone says, "That offends me", I thank them for that hollow statement.

If I didn't set out to 'offend' - and one takes offense (where none was directly given or implied),
then (IMHO) the 'offended' person is a bloody fool and an idiot!

[Terry]

Looking on the bright side Marty, apart from a great poem, you've given the crew something to toss around and also a bit more publicity for the WA Bush Poets - it's all good mate.

Cheers Terry

[Gary Harding]

Thanks heaps Manfred... I was going to leave it at that having made my point... but I'd like to acknowledge your positive comments.

Yes I agree (some) blokes do use language that is colourful, and YES I strongly agree with you that those very same blokes are then "nature's gentlemen" in public and mixed company. So true...

Then equally it follows that as nature's gentlemen they would also feel duty-bound to pull some bloke aside and have a quiet word if he did use profanity and "vulgarity"(!!) in public and certainly mixed company. Of course. Who here would not do that!? Who has not seen it done.

Now... as this ABPA forum is also (very) Public, Mixed Company, and Children too .. then I gather, as one of nature's gentlemen yourself, you feel equally duty-bound to have a quiet word about "vulgarity" and profanity to those who may be tempted to express themselves in such a way in the Public, Mixed gender and Children's literary arena that you preside over.

Thank you for that excellent analogy.

If my little speech did not make the point strongly enough, then yours certainly would.

No more Judge's Reports that condone or laud vulgarity and profanity in Bush Poetry ... well let's hope not, eh?

Thanks for your support! You deserve a First Prize for insisting on decent language standards for our craft!

Cheers, Gary