I spy with my little eye

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Neville Briggs
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I spy with my little eye

Post by Neville Briggs » Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:15 pm

I bought a very nice art book the other day, it's called Each Man's Wilderness and it only cost me $5 in the second hand book shop. The book has a number of fine illustrated articles on Australian artists who have done paintings of the outback and the bush.

I found very interesting a comment by artist John Borrack, who said "..it is not the duty of the artist to express what is obvious to everyone: if it was, he would not bother to interpret the actual fact with a painted representation "

I think this is a very significant insight, and we could apply the same to bush poetry.
Why should we bother to set out in verse , stories and narratives and events in just the way anyone could in prose, with the same words and the same effect. We need to do more than just transcribe prose into metre and rhyme, much more. Why should we do it like the old Bulletin poets, its already been done. Following on from John Borrack, I think, if we are going to be poets, we need to say it in a way that brings to attention to what is not obvious to everyone, and in the language of to-day..

Henry Lawson and Banjo Paterson saw what was not obvious to everyone, the stockman as a romantic "knight", the swaggie as a philosopher and symbol of perseverence, mateship as a an honourable obligation..and so on.
We can't see things the way Paterson and Lawson did, we live in a different world. Imitation Bulletin bush poetry won't last, no matter how funny or entertaining or historically interesting we think tales of the Australian bush might be, or how clever the Patersons and Lawsons were , we have to find the voice of today otherwise people will stop listening, they've heard it all before.


Neville
Neville
" Prose is description, poetry is presence " Les Murray.

Darren

Re: I spy with my little eye

Post by Darren » Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:38 pm

Gotta move with the times Neville.

How long till we start to loose more of our newspapers and everyone will be expected to read from the web via some type of device. What has been will no longer be. People now feel naked without their mobile phone. Gee, how can a kid survive if they don't have an iPod.

The next generation talks a different way and the language will further evolve as it has in the past. The difference is that the rate of change is accelerating at a much more rapid rate. Somehow I can't image a bush poem in text speak but to be relevant to the current younger generation it needs to appeal to them. Don't know how you do it as it usually takes time and maturity to appreciate "art" and the kids don't take the time or have the interest to acquire “taste”.

Darren

william williams

Re: I spy with my little eye

Post by william williams » Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:13 pm

Glad to see the name of the book that you are TRYING to read mate :o
:roll: The CONSICE OXFORD DICTIONARY
:twisted: After all those many years you have been in this country you still can’t understand mate
We’re Aussie not Poms mate. :lol: Flammin hell fella yah lived in the semi bush, drunk our tea chased our sheilas
Drunk our grog, cursed when you had to struth mate. :? :roll: W Shakespeare, W Wordsworth.
Their first name was the same as mine :cry: :roll: William, now don’t hold that against me cause I’m an Aussie their not, :mrgreen: they’re Poms. they speak similar but it ain’t the same, fair dinkum it’s enough to give you the willies 8-)
So get an Aussie Dictionary an be an Aussie ;) :D an write about the Aussie bush forget about your HiQ an them French what ever you call them, write in Aussie strine about our Aussie way of life. :lol: ) Paterson, Lawson and the Bulletin were good 8-) so let’s update it just a bit more modern if you like :idea: but keep the old Aussie flavour in it not that Pommie stuff :?: .

Bill the old Battler

Ps Neville :evil: if you're gunna kick me up me cleaveage beware
me dog bites

Neville Briggs
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Re: I spy with my little eye

Post by Neville Briggs » Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:25 pm

G'day Darren, You're a new face to me. Good to see you putting your bit in.

The fact that a generation talks a different way means that they think a different way, doesn't it. I reckon the bush poetry is worth doing but it will die if there's no one listening because it doesn't speak to them.

How do you do it ? I agree with you Darren, that's the big question.


What are you up to Bill ? :lol: The Oxford English Dictionary refers to the language not some ethnic tribalism.

I agree Bill, write about the bush , keep the Aussie flavour, trouble is the Aussie flavour of our time is not the same as 1890.

I haven't quite worked out how to do it yet.
Never fear Bill, I still get up and recite The Man from Ironbark.

And we still have the Union Jack in the corner of our flag ;)




Neville
Neville
" Prose is description, poetry is presence " Les Murray.

manfredvijars

Re: I spy with my little eye

Post by manfredvijars » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:04 pm

... Cheeeze Nev, have you closed your mind off to our modern poets because they write in Rhyme-n-metre? Do they not have any merit?

If you're looking for 'themes' seen with an insightful eye (not so obvious to everyone) read some of Ron Stevens works - and have a closer look at our own Hully's works posted here. There are many others, you just need to look.

The human condition (and themes) are pretty-much unchanged through the ages, however contemporary approaches (relative to the age) include the full gammit of poetical devices.

Writers change and move with their (respective) times down through the centuries. I've included a few 'snippets for comparison ...

And if you think there's something missing - go and write it!! :D

With Respect,

Manfred.

_______________________________________________
A contemporary theme from 1374 (Chaucer),

The longe nightes, whan every creature
Shulde have hir rest in somwhat by kynde,
Or elles ne may hir lif nat longe endure,
Hit falleth most into my woful mynde
How I so fer have broght myself behynde
That, sauf the deeth, ther may nothyng me lisse,
So desepaired I am from alle blisse.

This same thoght me lasteth til the morwe
And from the morwe forth til hit be eve;
Ther nedeth me no care for to borwe,
For both I have good leyser and good leve;
Ther is no wyght that wol me wo bereve
To wepe ynogh and wailen al my fille;
The sore spark of peyne now doth me spille.


----------------------


Prefer something rich in symbolism from 1798 (S.T.Coleridge)...

It is an ancient Mariner,
And he stoppeth one of three.
`By thy long grey beard and glittering eye,
Now wherefore stopp'st thou me?

The bridegroom's doors are opened wide,
And I am next of kin;
The guests are met, the feast is set:
Mayst hear the merry din.'

He holds him with his skinny hand,
"There was a ship," quoth he.
`Hold off! unhand me, grey-beard loon!'
Eftsoons his hand dropped he.



---------------------

Or some imagery from 1856 by A.L. Gordon...


Oh! the sun rose on the lea, and the bird sang merrilie,
And the steed stood ready harness'd in the hall,
And he left his lady's bower, and he sought the eastern tower,
And he lifted cloak and weapon from the wall.

"We were wed but yester-noon, must we separate so soon?
Must you travel unassoiled and, aye, unshriven,
With the blood stain on your hand, and the red streak on your brand,
And your guilt all unconfessed and unforgiven?"

------------------------------------


The Human contition - Henry Lawson 1888

They lie, the men who tell us in a loud decisive tone
That want is here a stranger, and that misery’s unknown;
For where the nearest suburb and the city proper meet
My window-sill is level with the faces in the street —
Drifting past, drifting past,
To the beat of weary feet —
While I sorrow for the owners of those faces in the street.

--------------------------------

More imagery .... G. Fredriksen (2003)

... I took her through long valleys
... where high mountains cup the meadows,
through temples of Antiquity and canyons of the mind,
... where the lonely west wind rallies
... and the Childhood Hills cast shadows,
searching for the questions to the answers I might find:

... Would you follow me on down, ten
... hundred miles, for Somewhere Mountain;
wrap me in your tenderness as moons of ages climb
... through the galaxies above—or
... till the centuries cross over;
hold me in your arms until the other end of Time ?
---

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Zondrae
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Re: I spy with my little eye

Post by Zondrae » Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:34 am

morning all,
I love the English language. Unfortunately I do not speak any other fluently. I would like to learn. However English, which has borrowed (or stolen) from many other 'tongues', has more words than any other language. (I think I read this somewhere) - Therefore it must be our right and duty to write it in as many forms as we can.
The outback and the pioneering life has been the setting for a few of my poems but most of the several hundred I have written are set in my time and place, not the bush. It is my preferance to (try) to write in 'proper' English. As close to grammatically correct as I can get, while keeping to rhyme and metre. All I know is Australia and the Australian way of life, in it's many and varied forms, so that bit is easy. I will never be convinced by any argument that writing with consistent rhyme and metre is not one of the most difficult of forms. To write blank or free verse must be so much easier. However to write well, in any form, is a noble endeavour.

all below is drivel:
Yesterday evening, I had written a reply to the original post and Bill's answer but this wonderful Mac Magic Mouse has a function that I must have turned on in error. If you squeeze the sides it clears the screen. So my most eloquent critique was lost. As I had written it in a flush of emotion, I could not duplicate it, so I went off in a huff. I think I will call the function the "anti-foot-in-mouth" button. I may have said something to regret in the cold light of day. I don't remember the exact wording. So perhaps I will leave the function on and try to remember not to squeeze.
Zondrae King
a woman of words

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Bob Pacey
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Re: I spy with my little eye

Post by Bob Pacey » Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:38 am

Bad things happen when good folk do nothing. You only have to get out into the schools and do Australian Bush Poetry to see that it will only die if we let it. The looks on the kids faces when they hear The Man From Snowy River or as I found Col Wilsons Cross Eyed Bull ( Little deviates ) is a wonder to behold.

Cheers Bob
The purpose in life is to have fun.
After you grasp that everything else seems insignificant !!!

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Zondrae
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Re: I spy with my little eye

Post by Zondrae » Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:41 am

morning Manfred,

.. Shame on me for not paying attention!! With sincere apologies to anyone I may have offended. As I said I am ignorant (in more ways than one.) I have edited some of my previous post. ....

I still stick to my words..
"any man who can write like that could turn a girls head.... I would like to read more of his work..."
I'm ignorant, I know, but I thirst for education. One lifetime is not enough.
Zondrae King
a woman of words

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Maureen K Clifford
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Re: I spy with my little eye

Post by Maureen K Clifford » Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:12 am

Oh Zondrae perhaps we all need one of those mice - but for those of us who don't have one we just have to open our gobs wider and change feet :lol:

Bill get off the port. You've got your S's and C's in the wrong place and how do you know Neville was out bush chasing sheilas?
Nothing wrong with being a Pom, or any other flavour for that matter - don't forget Australian's apart from our Aboriginal brothers ( and possibly even them) were all bred from immigrant blood lines. Being a true Australian IMO is like being Aboriginal. It is not the colour of your skin, or the shape or your eyes or your ethnicity that determines an Australian. It is what they feel in their heart and soul and being. If you feel this is your country, your land, if you can embrace and still love her despite what she throws at you and wouldn't live on any other place on earth, if you would fight for her, appreciate the blessings she offers then in my book you are an Australian. We are one, we are many, and from all the lands on earth we come.

Agree with the concept behind Neville's and Darren's post (G'day Darren) - the times they are a changing... and much as I personally love the romanticism of the old poets and the old ways logically one would presume that just as those poets wrote about what was current in their time and we now look back, and read in wonder and awe, then we as modern poets should write about our time and hope that future generations might do the same with our work. A poetic time capsule if you will.


Having said that I do think that in reality we actually do that already. Zondrae does, as she has already said, and you only have to read the current collaboration to see that we are already writing about the flood that needs an Ark but we don't bloody have one.

Personally can never see Bush Poetry written in the text message format so loved by our current generation but one should never say never - who knows???? We might not appreciate it but the kids might love it and if they could manage to do it - good on them - feel it would be far beyond my capabilities.

There is room for all types of poetry - love it, hate it, indifferent to it....at the end of the day it is all just words, strung together in different combinations, telling stories in different ways. Bit like washing on a Hills Hoist - it varies from wash day to wash day but the same clothes get pegged out over and over - occasionally words wear out and get tossed out just like old clothes and new fashions come and go, but one thing is for sure unless we all decide to run around stark naked (AARGH) the washing still has to be done.

Cheers

Maureen
Check out The Scribbly Bark Poets blog site here -
http://scribblybarkpoetry.blogspot.com.au/


I may not always succeed in making a difference, but I will go to my grave knowing I at least tried.

Neville Briggs
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Re: I spy with my little eye

Post by Neville Briggs » Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:15 am

Good morning Manfred. My little didactic splurge had nothing..nothing to do with the merits of rhyme and metre versus anything else.

Those examples you gave are very good because they illustrate my point exactly, as our culture evolves, our style of discussion of it also evolves.
I have looked Manfred, there are quite a few of our bush poets who I think do manage to bring contemporary mode of expression into play and indeed have the creative touch which brings out what is not obvious to everyone. And I wish I could do as well as they do it.

I asssume that a few on this site are learners like me and I was trying to set out something that I thought I had learned about what to aim for, so that us learners could have some idea of what it is that is the best practice.

You challenge me to do it. I keep hoping that I might be able to, one day. In the meantime I just keep struggling along with not a lot of success. At least I hope that I can get a clear idea of where to go.

G'day Bob,........ next week I am doing a childrens' workshop ( unpaid ) at our local library to introduce young people to rhyme and metre poetry. When it was advertised, the places filled up in no time flat, so they are certainly enthusiastic to start. In the advertising pamphlet that the library circulated I had written." Do you want to find out what a Triantiwontigongolope is ? " Evidently they do.



Neville
Neville
" Prose is description, poetry is presence " Les Murray.

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