Written Competition Poems - When to Call it Quits?

[Shelley Hansen]

Greetings All ...

I'm throwing out for discussion a topic that I often wonder about - and I guess I'm really asking for general guidance from those of you who are judges and/or seasoned written competitors.

Let me paint a hypothetical scenario - I write a poem, enter it into a written competition and receive a 3rd prize. That immediately makes it ineligible for some subsequent competitions (which disallow any placed poem), but it is still eligible for those which only disallow 1st prize winners. So I enter it into a few more (say 3) - some of which may be concurrent. It is unplaced in 2 comps, but receives a HC in the third.

According to the rules of many comps, it is still eligible to be entered in (not having won a 1st prize). However by now the poem is becoming rather well known. Perhaps it has even been published in a booklet or online by the organisers of one or more of the competitions. Its title also appears in our results pages or forum with my name appended. At this point my usual approach is to think my poem has had a pretty good run and to retire it from written competitions. But there have been times with others have suggested to me that I should try again with a particular poem.

So my question is not about competition rules, but about the feeling of judges on this issue. I know you will continue to judge the poem on its merit for as long as I legitimately enter it, but I can't quite rid myself of the niggling vision of a judge groaning, "Oh no, not this one again! Doesn't this poet have anything else?"

Looking forward to your feedback ...
Cheers, Shelley

[manfredvijars]

My personal view is that if your writing is driven by 'winning' at competitions - give it up!

If a piece has been rejected for a first prize, just let it go and write another.

I truly believe that the fun has been taken out of our craft in our obsession with competitions.

If you believe your works are good, why play to an audience of one or more (judges)?
You know that all the 'losers' will look for reasons why your work shouldn't have won.
Besides, how can artistic endeavours be constrained by roolz?
We're not sausage machines.

Publish a book, record a CD - post them for the world to see. Let the public and your peers comment, compare and even pay you money for your artistic endeavours.
But most of all - have fun!

Unless you see poetry competitions as a career path ... Then, just go for it ...

[David Campbell]

I can’t agree, Manfred. Shelley’s question is a good one because, without repeat submissions of minor award-winning poems, some written competitions simply wouldn’t be sustainable. Do we want written comps or not? There aren’t enough poets writing anyway, and to expect them to “just go and write another” if a poem doesn’t win first prize is impractical. (And suggests we are "sausage machines"!) Let me put the issue in perspective.

There are several aspects to this. To begin with, there are the competition organisers, who want as many entries, and hence as much income, as possible. Provided a poem doesn’t break any rules, they don’t care how many competitions it’s been in previously. From that point of view there’s no limit to a “pretty good run”. As an example, it would appear (unless I’m mistaken…minor title changes can be confusing) that one particular poem has featured on eight lists this year alone, with the best result a third place.

Then there are the judges (and critical observers) who, as Shelley says, might have the “not this one again” response. The problem for a judge is to keep an open mind and assess the poem against the others even if he/she knows who wrote it because of previous results. It happens, and you just have to deal with it as best you can. Those who run the “Doesn’t this poet have anything else?” line tend to underestimate the time and effort it can take to write a poem. On a quick count there are 23 written competitions (some with more than one section) listed on the ABPA 2015 results page…add in the two WA comps and we’ve got 25. That’s a lot of bush poetry competitions chasing poems from a limited number of writers, so expecting a new poem every time is simply unreasonable. To add another perspective, my writing time is also spent on non-rhyming verse, short stories, and newspaper articles. Leaving aside the articles, I have 62 written competitions listed for possible entry this year, most of them with more than one section. I can’t enter them all, let alone with new work. Then there are Maureen’s fortnightly homework exercises. And this isn’t the only website to which I contribute. So my answer to “Doesn’t this poet have anything else?” is: “Give me a break! Do you want an entry or not?”

That being said, I prefer not to submit a poem in more than one competition at a time, even though it’s possible in many bush poetry competitions. Just don’t like it, that’s all. Although the delay in finding out about some results can make this frustratingly difficult. It can be awkward, having heard nothing from a competition, to give up on it and send that poem somewhere else…only to be belatedly informed that it’s won a prize! That’s why organisers should always specify when and where results will be announced.

I like to support as many comps as possible if I have a poem that’s suitable (and the idea of “suitability” raises a whole lot of other questions), but if there are a number of competitions with similar closing dates there’s an obvious problem given my “no simultaneous entries” policy. So there’ll be a mix of the old and the new, and some competitions will inevitably miss out. And I might avoid others because I’ve lost confidence in them, either because of shoddy organisation or dubious judging decisions. We’ve seen cases in the past where non-ABPA judges have rewarded below-standard poems simply because they favoured particular subject-matter.

If a poem of mine wins a first prize it is, naturally, “retired” from competition, and what happens to those that win minor awards depends on my attachment to the poem. With some I have a “Surely it can do better than that!” attitude and so I’ll persist with it. As we’ve often discussed before, judging subjectivity means that results can be very different. I entered The Man Who Wasn’t There and A Shadow on the Water in last year’s Rolf Boldrewood Award and both disappeared without trace. With lists of results, people only see the successes, not the failures.

So my general advice to poets is to have faith in your work and, providing it’s within the rules, keep submitting it until you get a result you’re happy with. “Obsession”? "Career path"? Too old for both, I reckon! Anyway, I’ve published two books and recorded two CDs and still find the challenge of competitions “fun”.

Cheers
David

[Neville Briggs]

My personal view is that if your writing is driven by 'winning' at competitions - give it up!

I agree Manfreddo. ( perhaps not give up writing but give up entering competitions )

Of course the operative word in Manfred's statement is "driven " I take it that's distinct from now and again throwing one in for interest.

[manfredvijars]

No worries David, I still stand by my opening statement (and it is a personal view), "... if your writing is 'driven' by winning ... " one would be bound more by Form than Art.
Adhering to the strictures of a competition often does give rise to a level of frustration.
So one tries second guessing the judges AND hammering home a piece until it gets what you think it deserves - square peg into a round hole perhaps?

I still say move on! Rest that piece. Write something else and when you come back to it you may find where the edges are that need trimming ...

[Bob Pacey]

I agree Manfred.


Not often I do but I do

Bob

[Mal McLean]

Go with your gut feeling Shelley.

It's funny how many of us have been in that "hypothetical" before and have asked ourselves the same questions.

There is a growing belief that the competition model is fatally wounded but if it is (and I'm not sure) then that may have more to do with the overall health of "Bush Poetry". The path to navigate a poem to a comp is tortuous as our comp model is far from standardized. Go with your gut feeling.

I don't enter many comps any more as my poetry has taken a more radical approach to structure, rhyme and rhythm but if I felt a poem had something important to say I would rewrite it to match the judging expectations. The reason I say that is this. If you are simply considering resubmitting as is, then there may be an improvement or two you could be attending to. I simply see no point in resubmitting a poem you have not attempted to improve in some small way. If it has something important to say, then go for it. If your intuition says “it’s over." then that's it.

Love your poetry

Fond regards

Mal

[Terry]

Hi Shelley,
I enter about a dozen or possibly less comps a year I'd guess; I simply don't produce enough poems to enter more,
and If I entered poems only once, I would enter considerably less.
One thing I do is rest a poem sometimes for a considerable time and as David says, if I think the poem has merit,
I might have another look at it and try to improve it before I enter it again.
If you're anything like me you're probably still honing your skills and you maybe surprised when you look again at your poems (after giving them a good rest) just how often you can see how you might be able improve them.
The other thing to remember is that judges are human and have varying opinions, which is what you want in my opinion.
It's easy to be critical of comps, we all have our pet theories on how to improve them, the same as we do on what direction or style we think poets should be adopting.
It's the same with published for profit poems I bet very few have read a book of mine, or many from other fringe writers.

I have often said that to me it's just a bit of a hobby, with no expectations, and many of my poems that have won awards have started life on this or one other forum.
Saying that I can see both sides of this discussion, so my advice (for what it's worth) is do you own thing Shelley, but make sure that you enjoy what you're doing.

Cheers Terry

[Neville Briggs]

you maybe surprised when you look again at your poems (after giving them a good rest) just how often you can see how you might be able improve them.

Very good advice Terry, actually I think it is essential.

[Shelley Hansen]

Well, I expected my topic to create a bit of discussion, but I didn't think it would provoke such passion! Thank you all for your detailed responses - I appreciate the time and thought you've put into the subject.

Manfred, I guess you've answered my question loud and clear - and if I knew you were to be the judge I would certainly hesitate to submit a poem previously aired in any competition at all! But I'm not complaining - because the "hypothetical" scenario I posed wasn't hypothetical at all, and you were the judge who gave me the 3rd prize for that particular poem!

But please let me emphasise that my writing is certainly not "driven" by competitions. Far from it! If I was waiting for competition results to fulfill my ambitions, I'd have given up long ago! I've been writing poetry since the age of 4 and intend to go on doing so. I find it creatively fulfilling and enjoy both writing and performing.

I have two motives in entering written competitions - one is to foster our craft by supporting those who are willing to organise awards and thereby generate some exposure for Australian poets. The other motive - more personal and a greater driver - is my ongoing quest for personal excellence.

For me, creative satisfaction is inextricably linked with being the best that I can possibly be (not better than others, but better than I used to be). Entering written competitions and submitting my work to the eyes of those more qualified than myself has got to be a valuable yardstick. If I listen to someone willing to give me mentoring advice, and then apply the suggestions to my writing - surely my poetry will improve. That's what I want.

That said, the greatest disappointment for me is to receive feedback that is non-specific, such as "this poem has poor rhythm and rhyme" - but citing no instances of where its content is poor. That has happened to me on a couple of occasions, and only leads to bewilderment. "Revise, revise, revise" is a bit hard when you don't know where you've gone wrong, Neville!

I am not a poet who can "pour out" poetry in a few minutes. While the original idea and maybe even a good portion of the basic content may come relatively quickly, the real writing (and enjoyment) for me is in the progressive crafting of the finished work, which as David says, takes lots of time. It's akin to achieving a painting one brush-stroke at a time, sewing a beautiful garment stitch by stitch, or learning to play a new piece of music note by note. That, coupled with life's responsibilities, means that my poetic output is not particularly prolific.

So I totally agree with you David, that to expect brand new poems for every competition is completely unrealistic. On the other hand, to produce nothing new at all points to lack of creative inspiration. The challenge is obviously to find the balance. I admit I have at times entered the same poem in concurrent competitions - but only when I can be sure that the prize announcement of one will be after the closing date of the other. I don't think I've ever been successful in two concurrent competitions with the same poem!

I don't often write a poem specifically for a competition, but there are obviously exceptions to this when themed competitions come along (Toolangi, Adelaide Plains, John O'Brien etc). You have to be lucky to have an eligible poem on the precise chosen theme just sitting around waiting to be entered!

Mal, thank you for your vote of confidence and I think I'll continue to do exactly what you suggested - "Go with the gut feeling". I don't like the idea of flogging something to death, but I keep remembering that if I'd retired A Lesson in Life after it got a poor judging report early in 2014, then it would never have won the Ipswich International later the same year, and I wouldn't have a "Babies of Walloon" trophy in my collection! Which just highlights (again) what Terry and David mentioned - the subjectivity of judging, and the fact that "one judge's opinion" doesn't necessarily mean that a poem should be consigned to oblivion after failing in one competition.

And finally, Mannie - you'll be happy to know that I have produced both a CD and more recently, a book of original poems ... and when this poetic adventure stops being fun, I'll definitely take it as a sign to hang up my hat!!

Cheers, Shelley