Difference between performance and written poetry

[Leonie]

Maybe my question was a bit oversimplified.

I totally agree with all the comments about the delivery of a performance and the difference that can make and didn't mean to imply that I thought one inferior to the other (I did say rightly or wrongly ) but it has been said time and time again that the odd 'mistake' can be overlooked in performance and I understand that too. Audiences don't pick up on little things. I am talking more about anything that is posted (i.e. written out) now being a written piece whether it was written with performance in mind or not.

It was just something I was pondering, when is 'written' not actually 'written'. I don't know, maybe it's my brain wandering off on a tangent or the fact that I rarely see or hear performance poetry, so most poetry I access is actually written, and it's just me reading it, so there isn't anyone else to give it the deliverance that may have been intended.

[Kym]

Ummm ... Wot???

They are all "written" cos that's how they got on the computer screen or scrap of paper, but I think you're asking if you just picked up a poem and read it, how would you decide whether it would be classed as "written" or "performance"??? Is that what you mean?

I guess to be classed as "written" poem, it would be constructed well enough to enter into a written comp, whereby it would have to comply to all the rhythm, rhyme and structure parameters, but if it has too many hiccups in that department, it probably wouldn't do well.

To be classed as a "performance" poem, the main requirement would be the entertainment factor (emotionally engaging or educational), and the consistency of the rhyme and metre is less of an issue.

Some poems qualify as both. Some wouldn't do well in either.

Is that what you were asking?

Clear as mud, right!

[Zondrae]

Sticking my nose into this one,

G'day Kym, I can't say which is harder, performing or writing. I think it is 'different strokes for different folks'. I find both equally difficult at times and equally easy at other times. I still hold the opinion that some poems suit one field better than the other. And then again there are those poems that fit both.
I have seen many performers who don't write their own material and others (like myself) who only do their own stuff. In both cases it is a combination of the poem and the performance (or interpritation) of the poem, that makes good entertainment. I'm not good enough to know whether a poem will be a written (competition material) piece or a performance piece. Often I don't have a clue until after I'm finished. I'd like to hear someone else do my poems. Specially the funny ones. I don't do 'funny' very well. I hope I'm getting better at it. I think to myself I'll pretend I am (here insert a funny performer, eg Graham Johnson or Greg North) and I can rehearse it, as if I am them with suitable funny faces and exadurated gesures etc - but come stage time, I go back into my shell. I think the most important factor is to do the very best job we possibly can and never be happy with an 'oh that'll do'. attitude.

It is funny but I think I do my best performances at the National. In spite of the fact that it is the biggest crowd I get to go before and the biggest gathering of fellow poets, I don't get stage nerves. I can't explain it.

[Mal McLean]

Understood Leonie although I did wander off on the tangent.

It might be hard to tell if a piece is written for performance or not sometimes, or even often.

All poems have to be written out to be performed but not all excellently performed poems are technically correct as not all technically correct poems make for a good performance poem.

I dunno. You could try reading out each poem aloud and forming a judgment yourself that way.

See if you can get down to Tenterfield for the Oracles of the Bush to see some talented poets competing and to see the pro's as they go about their business.

Mal

PS. I just had an afterthought. Manfred, I know you are watching so how about a thread for performance poems

[Kym]

Mal, you are exactly on the money - it's all in the delivery. For example ... stand up again please Bob ... if Bob and I performed the exact same poem, you'd hear his audience laughing two blocks away. If I performed the exact same poem, you'd hear my audience snoring five blocks away! I'm like Zondrae, in my head I can do it, but as soon as there are faces looking at me, all my confidence shrinks back into my shell and I say the words, but without conviction behind them, they are booooooring. To me, that's why writing is easier, nobody's looking at me. I can make mistakes and no-one will ever know.

Leonie, are you worried that posting poems on the forum changes them from one category to the other? Maybe you're thinking about comps - how once a poem has been published (or posted), it can't be entered into some comps? Yet performance poems can be used over and over. And over. And over. And over. Hmmm .... why is that??? Oh I know, maybe cos the "written" poem doesn't change, yet performance competitions are judged more on the delivery than the poem itself?

Has anyone answered your question yet Leonie?

[Kym]

Hi again Mal, you posted the same time as me. A lot of the poems on here are already "performance" poems, so I dunno that they would need their own section. I wouldn't know which section to use then - how would I decide what's written and performance? And, who's to say what's a performance poem, and what's not, cos what I think would be good, someone else wouldn't. If someone does a footy poem, the bloke beside me would be cheering and laughing, but I'd be thinking about housework that needs to be done, yet if someone does a horse poem, I'd be sitting on the edge of my chair, while the bloke beside me is drooling down his chest and snoring. There is no definitive distinction, so we may as well just keep on lumpin' 'em all together!

[Dave Smith]

Leonie G/Day

I like Bob write stuff That I can perform that would not pass muster in a written comp, it often has assonance not true rhyme and performing your own stuff you can force the metre, some times I doubt if other people could read them because they would not know what I was thinking, I don’t post these because the would not pass any scrutiny. I think posting poetry is looking for some comment that will help you improve, I really would like to be able to write poetry that anyone could perform and relay what I was trying to say.

I don’t have a lot of trouble performing poems that are well written i.e. the old masters.

TTFN

[Leonie]

Hi Kym, I'm not sure it was really a question to be honest, more a musing. I think I was thinking along the lines of what Zondrae said that we should try to do the best we can at all times no matter what we are writing for. My thinking was that taking the attitude of ... oh it'll be ok if doesn't really rhyme (or whatever), it isn't for a comp is a bit of a cop out. The reader still has to read and understand what you are trying to say.

It was prompted by Zondrae (sorry to keep singling you out Zondrae) offering a helping comment to someone, can't remember who, about a rhyme that wasn't really a rhyme and a few people throwing in the comments that it didn't matter because .... insert reason here .... Rhyming singulars with plurals and past with present tense gives me hives (as Glenny would say) and that just set me off on this tangent.

Thanks everyone for your input, it's interesting to read what others think.

[manfredvijars]

I'd suggest we throw out TWO words from our (poets) vocabulary,
1) Competition, and
2) Performance
replacing them with, Engaging and Entertaining.

The old masters didn't have the competitions we do now. They had to submit to a publisher (The Bulletin being one), there they had to follow the rules of grammar and punctuation otherwise no publication = no money.

I hate to admit it, but sometimes I write crap! Just because we write in metered rhyming verse doesn't mean we're all a Lawson, MacKellar or a C.J.
I'm looking at Graham's stuff, it's meticulously crafted and are great performance pieces without the need to change one iota. It's engaging AND entertaining.

I contrast his works with Neil MacArthur's. By his own admission he pushes the rhyme and pulls the metre, yet it's engaging AND entertaining.

Putting our works into a bigger 'pot' (such as a competition ), we sometimes find what we deem to be excellent is only mediochre. It's good to be humbled.

If we try and push the rhyme and pull the metre through laziness, it shows. And no matter how good the concept is, if we fail in telling it in an engaging and entertaining manner, we fail. Also, if our subject matter is poor then we've failed again.

I'd suggest (Your Honour) that there is no difference between "Written" and "Performance" verse.

[Dave Smith]

Cor Blimey It takes me so long to type any thing that by the time I post it’s out of date.

A well-written poem with all the right tec stuff can be read and well received, and also win a comp unless of course it’s just long and boring.

A poem scratched out just to perform without being all tec correct will not win any comp.

TTFN

PS
Leonie I am sure I could perform any of the poems you have posted and get good response.
Pat Pat Pat meself on the back.