A Dash or a Semicolon

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Terry
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Re: A Dash or a Semicolon

Post by Terry » Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:17 pm

Dashes are a fairly new thing for me; last two or three years I reckon.
For many years I just used semicolons and often incorrectly it seemed.

But it's all a bit of fun really, all part of the learning curve.


Cheers Heather

Terry

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Shelley Hansen
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Re: A Dash or a Semicolon

Post by Shelley Hansen » Sat Aug 22, 2015 11:05 pm

Mmm - an interesting discussion! Firstly Bob, I'm taking your advice and performing next weekend at a Heritage Festival - a poem I've been commissioned to write and haven't finished yet :o (So why am I wasting time posting on this thread, you ask??)

I'm a bit like you Terry - I made much more use of the semicolon in in the past than I do now. Also, I've increased my use of dashes and decreased my use of ellipses. I don't know that I could really say why - possibly just observation of other people's writings. Am I right or wrong? I don't know.

I've also increased my use of the full stop within verses, even in places where I might have previously used the semicolon. That is particularly the case if I'm trying to make a poem sound terse or "clipped" - perhaps a first person narrative which is a collection of thoughts.

Some judges make mention of punctuation in their reports, while others don't. A poem I entered in one competition was marked down because of "poor punctuation". I had no idea where my errors were as the judge didn't say. That poem went on to win last year's Ipswich "Babies of Walloon" with no alteration to the punctuation.

So apart from the standard definitions - are there acknowledged rules or does it come down to "poet's choice" (or maybe "judge's choice")?

David ... help us out here!!

Cheers, Shelley
Shelley Hansen
Lady of Lines
http://www.shelleyhansen.com

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fer 'atin' never paid no dividends."
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Bob Pacey
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Re: A Dash or a Semicolon

Post by Bob Pacey » Sat Aug 22, 2015 11:07 pm

Inserting a colon ----- ostophy ?


Bob
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After you grasp that everything else seems insignificant !!!

Neville Briggs
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Re: A Dash or a Semicolon

Post by Neville Briggs » Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:35 am

Colon-oscopy Bob, get it right. :) If your colon-oscopy looks bad you might need a colon-ostomy.
Neville
" Prose is description, poetry is presence " Les Murray.

Heather

Re: A Dash or a Semicolon

Post by Heather » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:31 am

Shelley, never, never, never take the advice of someone who doesn't know their oscopy from their ostophy. :)

warooa

Re: A Dash or a Semicolon

Post by warooa » Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:02 pm

I'm just intrigued as to what Ross thinks . . . he doesn't like dots but what about dashes?

Neville Briggs
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Re: A Dash or a Semicolon

Post by Neville Briggs » Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:11 pm

Heather, I think Bob is trying to make a pun on apostrophe. It is admirable that Bob is exploring the use of puns, very handy poetic devices. ;) :)
Neville
" Prose is description, poetry is presence " Les Murray.

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Bob Pacey
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Re: A Dash or a Semicolon

Post by Bob Pacey » Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:21 pm

Went straight over all their heads Nev !

Shut up again now Bob,
The purpose in life is to have fun.
After you grasp that everything else seems insignificant !!!

Heather

Re: A Dash or a Semicolon

Post by Heather » Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:34 pm

Marty did you put those dots in just to annoy Ross?

Neville perhaps Bob meant ostrophy rather than ostophy? he can't even spell his puns right :lol:

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David Campbell
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Re: A Dash or a Semicolon

Post by David Campbell » Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:26 pm

In response to Shelley’s request, here are some of the comments I’ve posted over the last few years on punctuation plus a few added thoughts.

One reason I’m pedantic about punctuation is that it provides the basic guidelines for reading/performing a poem. For example, indicating a short pause for a comma, slightly longer for a semi-colon, and longer again for a full-stop. It’s vital for getting the breathing right, and then you can work on things like stress and cadence. Careful punctuation should help anyone who picks up the poem to gain some insight into how it's meant to be read. It should also assist the natural flow of the lines, particularly with enjambment.

It’s probably not helpful to view punctuation as a mass of obscure rules that have to be mastered. It smacks too much of the classroom and rote learning. Punctuation is simply a writer’s set of instructions to the reader: “This is how I want my poem read. I want a short pause here, a longer one there, this is a question, and that’s an exclamation!”

So listen to yourself reading the poem and issue your instructions accordingly. If you’re not confident, stick to the comma and full stop and don’t worry about the semi-colon (;), colon (:), ellipsis (…), or dash (—).

But if you do want to venture into this territory, here are some suggestions: firstly, note the use of that colon to indicate there’s something to follow (it serves as a warning, perhaps of a list or series of connected statements); secondly, note the use of that semi-colon to separate out two of those connected statements (it’s stronger than a comma but weaker than a full stop); (there’s another one) and thirdly, although purists will argue, I reckon the dash and ellipsis can serve pretty much the same purpose, that is, to indicate a break in a train of thought, or maybe something that’s unfinished. (Note it can also be used to show that something is missing from a quotation.)

I prefer the ellipsis mainly because it’s easy to generate on a keyboard and can’t be confused with the hyphen, which is quite different to the dash in meaning. (The hyphen, which is shorter, applies in terms like “happy-go-lucky”, “mind-boggling”, “well-known”, “great-grandson”, and numbers like “forty-two”.)

The ellipsis/dash can be used very effectively in poetry to highlight something or slow the reader down (or both). For example, from Unspoken Words (which is on the poetry page):

The house still holds you near, and right across our land
I sense that you are here and reach to take your hand.
I hear your step, your voice, but there’s just empty space;
for seconds I rejoice…a stranger has your face.


Note the importance of the comma after “near”. I put a semi-colon rather than a full stop after “space” to create a longer pause before the beginning of the final line, but not a complete break (because the images are linked). And the ellipsis in the final line is used as a dramatic pause before the emotional let-down of “a stranger has your face”. A dash would also have been fine, but (personal preference again) I just like the “look” of the ellipsis.

In summary, punctuation is just a set of signposts, a means of communication between writer and reader. Its presence (or absence) can contribute a lot to the appreciation of a poem.

Cheers
David

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