Poetry as 'entertainment'

[David Campbell]

This thread is prompted by some discussion in other posts about how poetry is used as entertainment, particularly with regard to the mix of serious and humorous pieces in a performance, and whether something like the poetry of Stephen Edgar would be appropriate.

If the audience is the general public (as opposed to fellow poets) I usually split it about 50:50 and that seems to work OK. I’ve never performed in a caravan park, but there, given that people may well be tired after driving all day, I suspect the emphasis would more likely be on the humorous…maybe at least 70% lighter stuff. Bob or Neil could give a better idea. Something of Edgar’s would probably be better suited to an audience of poets, where people are accustomed to the idea of imagery, and able to listen for and appreciate a writer’s skill with words.

I make this point because it can be all too easy to overestimate where a general audience is in terms of understanding poetry. Most are probably focussed on the story, and couldn’t care less about imagery, metre or rhyme. This comes out in questions. I encourage people to ask questions, and leave time at the end specifically for this…there are nearly always more than time will allow.

But the questions are along the lines of: How long does it take you to write a poem? Where do your ideas come from? When you begin a poem, do you know how it’s going to end? Do you get up in the middle of the night to write down your ideas? Do you use a computer or pen and paper? Nobody’s saying: Now why did you use iambic pentameter for that piece? Or: That image you used to describe such-and-such…can you explain the thinking behind that? In other words, they’re asking more about the process of writing rather than the poetry itself.

However one can lead to the other, and it occurs to me that we don’t seem to allow much time at bush poetry festivals for interaction with the audience. At most major literary festivals there are panels of writers who read some of their work and then take questions, leading to a discussion amongst those on the panel. Now maybe I haven’t been to the right festivals, but I can’t remember ever seeing something like this at a bush poetry event. I did see it at the Newstead Folk Festival early this year.

We have bush poetry workshops, but the general public interpret a ‘workshop’ as being a technical event for those who want to write poetry. Most people don’t want to do that…they’re simply curious about those weird bods who write poetry, and want a bit of insight into who we are and how (and why) we do it. However, talking about that enthusiastically provides opportunities for slipping in comments about the effectiveness of metre and rhyme, or the different approaches to serious and humorous verse (for example), which might just encourage a few to have a go for themselves. It becomes a sort of PR exercise, promoting poetry in a way that goes beyond recitation.

So there’s a suggestion for organisers. As part of the ‘entertainment’, why not allow time for some two-way conversations/discussions with those in the audience? Not a workshop, just an opportunity for audience members to quiz a poet or poets about their craft. And if it’s already happening, I’d be interested to know where!

Cheers
David

[Bob Pacey]

I would say about 80 to 20 humorous to serious David, I think a good preamble and story line to most poems is all that the audience want. I always allow sometime to mingle and the most often question or just a comment is " I do not know how you remember them all ".


Your idea about question time might well work of at a festival but I would not hold much hope after a campfire session. Most of the grey nomads just want to be entertained and have a relaxing drink at the end of the day.


Bob

[Shelley Hansen]

Hi David and Bob ...

This promises to be an interesting discussion! I agree with you Bob, that the casual grey nomad audience is best reached with the lighter stuff. Rod and I have done several "off the cuff" performances in caravan parks during our travels and we usually start with something light - perhaps introducing a more serious note once they have settled. Sometimes if we're talking to people beforehand someone might mention a particular interest that aligns with one of our poems - so we'll include that. That happened when we did an impromptu performance at Midge Point Caravan Park near Mackay a couple of years ago. I have a poem about Bert Hinkler, and a couple of the men had previously mentioned their interest in aviation - so that poem made an appearance on that night!

On the other hand, we have done some organised concerts which we approach quite differently. Recently we had a "poetry weekend" at Lake Redbrook Holiday Retreat near Childers. This was organised by friends of ours for a group of their friends who all have an interest in poetry. Other caravanners from the park joined in, along with a few local residents. We had about 40 in total. On the first night we held a "fun poetry challenge". I spent about 20 minutes talking in light-hearted vein about the challenges of writing rhyming poetry and I gave everyone a handout summarising the basics. Then we collectively composed a poem on a theme I randomly chose "Out of the Blue". It ended up being about Queensland's win in State of Origin

Then I set a challenge - to write a poem with a maximum of 24 lines on any one of a set of 8 topics. They were broad subjects, allowing plenty of scope to think outside the square (e.g. "Simply the Best", "Beyond Retirement", "Out on the Road", "Did You Hear What I Said?"). They had all next day to write the poems which would be read during our Saturday night concert - and all present would vote by secret ballot to determine a winner.

Rod and I expected half-a-dozen poems at the most. We were absolutely astounded on the Saturday night to find that 18 people had participated - some with more than one poem. The quality of the work was surprising! Some of these people (including the winner) had never attempted to write poetry before and did not believe they could do so - but the fun spirit of the weekend encouraged them to have a go.

Having a prepared audience with an interest in poetry, we were able to successfully perform a more even mix of light and serious at the main concert on the Saturday night.

I agree with you Bob, that a good preamble is essential. We went to one campfire performance in a caravan park some time ago where the poet prefaced each recitation with, "Ummm - which one will I do now??" Wasn't exactly a great introduction! His poetry was good, but spoiled by his presentation.

David, I agree that audience participation and questions to a panel of poets would be a welcome addition to a poetry festival. Of course you'll always get the "do you get up at night" questions (and the answer is yes!!), but there may be some who want to question in more depth. And our experience at Redbrook is proof that many people would love to have a go at writing - they just need a kick-start! I know that at least one of our audience has written more verse since that weekend.

Cheers, Shelley

[manfredvijars]

David, there is merit in what you say ...
May I forward your original post to the organisers at Bundaberg and North Pine?

[David Campbell]

Yes, by all means, Manfred. If Shelley's experience is anything to go by, some audience participation might help to spread the word. That was a great response at Redbrook, and Shelley's "priming" of the group clearly worked very well. I'm sure there will be poets at our festivals who would be happy to be part of a panel discussion or some form of audience interaction...it's a good way to learn from each other as well.

I wasn't thinking of it as part of a campfire session, Bob, but as a festival event. People see a lot of performing at festivals...at breakfasts the emphasis is on getting through as many poets and poems as possible...so a forum where they could get involved and ask a question or express an opinion might be welcome. Otherwise they're just a passive audience, but if we can activate them there could be some surprising results!

Cheers
David

[Neville Briggs]

David seems to have canvassed well the presentation of original poems.

There is also the presentation of " classic " bush poetry. Should we assume that the audience knows the historical background and the cultural basis of work by Paterson, Lawson, Boakes, Harrington, Dennis, and others like that. Would it help if the presenter took the time to learn the details of history and personality that set the poems, related these details, and was prepared to answer questions along those lines. .

It all depends I suppose. Such details could be dry and irrelevant to an audience. So it all depends on the venue, the skill of the presenter to engage the audience's interest and the skill of the presenter to " read " the audience. I recently went to a performance of Lawson and Paterson poetry by a couple of pros in an arty venue and there was a question time after which brought out a lot of questions from the audience

There is some thoughtful and useful advice posted above , I reckon.

And I think that the main principle in all this is to know your audience.
In the end it's not what we think is interesting and worthwhile, but what the audience can be persuaded is interesting and worthwhile.

Sorry if I'm stating what has already been said, I'm a bit slow these days.

[keats]

With regards to Workshops, I and a couple of other poets I work with regularly, always open by asking what the people in attendance would like to or are expecting to learn. The last thing that comes up is the highly technical jargon cherished by our judges. They mostly wish to know how to adjust their thoughts and ideas into a poem they can share with friends and family. Often the Workshops focus on the simplicities and the joy of producing poetry at an enjoyable level. Few wish to enter the realm of competing. They always ask where I get my weird ideas and dramatic twists from and I am only too happy to fill them in. So, yes, they do like to get to know the poet and how he/she ticks and if they can use some of those traits in their own writing, then I see that as a good thing and a tiny legacy to live on.

As far as performing in Van Parks, well yes, I concentrate my shows purely on comedy and always finish with a serious original to leave them with a lasting visual of this great land and it's cultural quirks. But my shows are only half poetry these days with a lot of yarnspinning and standup comedy with the occasional ditty on the guitar or ukulele just for some contrast. The oldies always seem to love the shows and leave happy with new friends they have made, because the initial ten minutes are the most important, where everybody finds out where everybody else is from and you utilise that knowledge throughout the show to connect even more closely with the audience.

Note that I perform NO traditional poetry whatsoever, and leave that to others. They appear to enjoy yarns and comedy that they have not been exposed to before. I am sure others do things differently and that is good. Milton once told me that he couldn't rely on his comedy throughout a show because he mainly used joke poems and therefore it was his strength as a performer to play on the emotions of the audience with his serious material. But he also told me never to change how I structure my shows as he has seen them work very well, as I have seen his.

So just some thoughts from my perspective. Hope it is relevant to this thread.

Cheers

Neil

[Neville Briggs]

I think it is a mistake to quickly write off jargon as being too technical or obscure.

We wouldn't discuss music and say it's too much technical jargon to mention bars, chords, keys, scales etc.
In poetry, technique is of vital importance and technical issues relate to technique.
If people want to know how to, as you say, adjust their thoughts and ideas into a poem, technique is unavoidable.
I suppose as long as technique is the means and not the end

If you mean Neil, that some lose sight of what you might call the soul of a poem, to focus on " correct " structural elements and the minutiae of rules, I think that can happen , sort of puts a damper on things in my view. Zondrae mentions in another place on this site about being taken to task by a poetry judge for using too many commas. That's picky for no useful poetic reason.

I agree with you Neil, as far as reaching the audiences, like the musos say " play it by ear '

[keats]

We wouldn't discuss music and say it's too much technical jargon to mention bars, chords, keys, scales etc.

I would hate to go to a concert and have these things explained to me before a song though Neville. With poetry workshops for other poets and poetry groups, naturally you would expand on the technicalities, but with most workshops I do they are beginners of casual writers so I steer clear of Metrical Feet and the magic of Semi-Colons etc. lol

But I take your point.

Cheers

Neil

[Neville Briggs]

I know what you mean Neil.
Like everything..it all depends.

I found David's idea of the question time interesting.

Our little local group is doing a bush poetry performance in July, I have been thinking of ways to include the audience ( which I assume will be small ) questions from the audience might, might work to get up some more interest. I am not experienced like others who post on this site, and I don't know for sure ( As long as we know the answers )

And I think that at a place like the Tamworth Longyard or a caravan campsite, questions from the audience almost certainly wouldn't work. At a place like the Toolangi tea house, audience questions may well work into the event.
It all depends. And I think David is saying that.

A mate of mine did a bush ballad at one of those Australian poetry slams , he did a good job but it went over like the proverbial lead balloon.
Last month, I saw Max Cullen and Warren Fahey doing Lawson and Paterson bush ballads at an art gallery soiree and the audience of arty fartys loved it. And, David, at that event Cullen and Fahey had a question time which the audience enthusiastically responded to.
A lady from our local poetry group with me, once did a reciting of bush poetry at the local high school and the children joined in a question time after, with a fair bit of interest.

I still think that knowing the audience is the critical skill. Believe me I've seen the occasions when the performer didn't know the audience. It's not a pretty sight.