Reading poetry

Discussion of any bush poetry topic.
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Neville Briggs
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Reading poetry

Post by Neville Briggs » Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:23 pm

I have a horrid confession to make, I read contemporary poetry, including ..horror of horrors :o .....free verse stuff.

I think it is an invaluable learning practice for people like us who pursue the humble bush poetry regime to nevertheless read widely and include contemporary stuff.

After doing a lot of research and thinking about good writing, I have come to the belief that a most valuable exercise is to read contemporary poetry with the purpose of learning how they show and not tell. Their flexible approach to rhyme and metre I guess grates on bush poetry afficionados, and bush poets have already decided that they won't accommodate that approach. Doesn't matter, for the purpose of my suggested exercise you can ignore that feature.

But what I suggest and urge is that you read contemporary poetry and see how they make vivid and strong images without relying as much on adjectives and adverbs as bush poetry seems to do. On that score, the good contemporary poets ( Kevin Hart, Jamie Grant, Les Murray, Judith Beveridge) have a lot that we can learn from.

Despite the accolades for bush poetry winners on their adept use of colourful adjectives, the over reliance on adjectives and adverbs tends to weaken the power of poetic expression. All poets put them in as far as I can see, but I have come to believe that good poetry writing happens when these parts of speech are pruned to a minimum in favour of metaphor, similes and plain direct nouns and verbs. In other words, things doing things make more powerful images than just sentiments about things.

" I had written him a letter " says Banjo, and everybody remembers that line.
" Tall and freckled and sandy, face of a country lout, this was the picture of Andy, Middleton's rouseabout " Just a few words from Henry Lawson, and we get the picture !

One day I might begin to be able to do it.
Neville
" Prose is description, poetry is presence " Les Murray.

Vic Jefferies
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Re: Reading poetry

Post by Vic Jefferies » Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:13 pm

Couldn't agree more Neville. Read everything you can and learn. However, be careful and be sure you understand what you are reading and why you like it. Don't fall into the trap of fashion and expectation. After saying that I must admit I find most of the contemporary free versers are not to my liking with the exception of Les Murray (who often writes in rhyme.) I often come away from reading free verse wondering what it was all about and as I said before if I want to be puzzled I'll do a crossword.

I think you have raised a very important matter here in that over the last few years there seems to have developed a style of bush poetry that is far removed from the style of the old masters and which to my mind relies far too much upon adverbs and adjectives forced rhyme and metre. Our poetry has become so rigid and technically correct that it is almost as though some of it is produced by a machine or to a formula.
Graham Frederikson's poetry as posted by Manfred was an absolute breath of fresh air and I suspect he (Graham) may have been complaining about the restrictive nature and sameness of the bush poetry being produced today.

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Mal McLean
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Re: Reading poetry

Post by Mal McLean » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:20 pm

Here are some good reference materials for you to consider:-

http://www.textetc.com/traditional.html
http://www.cultureandrecreation.gov.au/articles/poetry/

and particularly

http://www.poetrymagic.co.uk/traditional.html

where the point made are so obvious as to be stunning.

Despite the current state of affairs in Australian publishing, neo formalism continues to flourish around the world, although probably to a much lesser degree than its adherents would like to acknowledge and to a much greater degree than its detractors would admit.

Is Australian Bush Poetry part of the neo formalist movement? I think probably not, because of our reliance on rules and forms and its relatively narrow niche. But having said that, the “Ballad of Two Massacres” by Graham Fredrikson shows the reader exactly where traditional poetry that is not over governed by the poet adhering to forms and rules can lead.

For some more thought provoking ideas access the Wikipedia entry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Formalism
and
http://allpoetry.com/column/2356001

In the mean time I say, write the way you feel you should and read everything with an open mind and poets soul.

I don't regard myself as a "bush poet". Just as a poet. I write urban poetry in both traditional and free verse forms because that is where my experience is drawn from. I also read contempory free verse as well as all the English and Australian masters.

You are not alone.

MM Beveridge aka Mal McLean and Mal the Oldfart
Preserve the Culture!

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Zondrae
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Re: Reading poetry

Post by Zondrae » Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:50 pm

Evening all,

I recently attended a 'Rocket Reading' and came away confused. There were three poets featured who 'read' their poems out. Not one could finish a poem with out expletives. Why they need to use bad language is beyond me. One also accompanied the vulger section with suggestive movements. Again, I didn't feel it was necessary and, actually distracted me from the poem. I found it difficult to follow what the poems were about. If I had asked I woud have received one of those 'looks'. I am not unviersity educated but I'm not thick either. I can't get how one can 'paint a scene with words', and not use adjectives and adverbs. Perhaps someone could post an example.

There was one poem that I woud have liked to hear (or read) again. It did have swearing in it but it fitted in that particular piece and was not just inserted for effect. I know there is room for all types of expression in poetry but I am still not impressed with this style. It was all free verse.

The 'Slam' format is producing some interesting work. I would like to hear more of the young bloke who was on the ABC with Carol Heuchan. Now that man can write. I have misplaced his name and I will ask Carol next time I see her. I believe there is going to be a slam event at the National this year.
Zondrae King
a woman of words

David J Delaney

Re: Reading poetry

Post by David J Delaney » Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:22 pm

One can write 'bush' free verse, this one won 1st place in a comp late last year.



Waking.


Stirring in my swag,
aroused to morning sounds.

Water trickling,
lorikeets screech, chatter,
bush turkeys scratch, grunt,
early trill of cicadas.

Smell.

Freshness of eucalypt gums,
wild flowers,
smokey embers.

Eyes opening.

Kaleidoscopes
of sunlight shards
pierce diminishing mist,
a small cloud of pale blue smoke
hovers above smoldering campfire,
water trickles over rocks,
lorikeets search for nectar,
turkeys eat breakfast grubs,
cicadas frozen to trunks,
kangaroo’s drink.

Hypnotised by nature,
Still I lie, not wanting to move,

How long will I stay?

How long?.


David J Delaney
21/05/2010 ©

warooa

Re: Reading poetry

Post by warooa » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:50 am

We studied Bruce Dawe's poetry at high school and the very raw and very vivid Australianess of his poems about drifters, truckies, soldiers and housewives left an imprint on me. I always found Dawe much more readable than Les Murray.

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Bob Pacey
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Re: Reading poetry

Post by Bob Pacey » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:01 am

Ah Marty you got it there. Manly the best footy team in the world. You ask them , they will tell you.


Cheers Bob
The purpose in life is to have fun.
After you grasp that everything else seems insignificant !!!

Neville Briggs
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Re: Reading poetry

Post by Neville Briggs » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:56 pm

I read all the replies and they were very good and deserve a response.

I would like to point out that I don't think of myself as a know-it-all and I freely admit that my accomplishments lag behind my theory. I am just trying to urge the bush poets on, me included, to polish up things a bit if we can, mainly in the written stuff.
I am NOT advocating changing the form of bush poetry into some esoteric pretentious obscurantism.

Vic. I think I know what you mean. I look at a lot of my efforts and they are woeful. I'll have to keep on trying to do better.

Mal. Thanks for those references they are very interesting. I'll have to read them several times to get the idea right.

Zondrae.

I didn't suggest that one should not use any adjectives or adverbs. What I have been trying to work on is how to only use these if they are precise. I tell myself to go in fear of adjectives and adverbs.
As an example, in Paterson's " Bush Christening " he could have said something like
" far out on a lonely remote old bush track " that's my line.. pretty weak.
but instead he said " on a track never crossed 'cept by folks that are lost "
Much more effective and poetic wouldn't you agree ?
or again
" the station was actively gathering
for we heard some disturbing news..." my doggerel !!
he did it much better " There was movement at the station for the word had got around, that......." Much more direct and active., don't you think ?

Dave. That's an interesting example, though not what I was talking about. What was the comp?

Warooa. That's it, we take the influence and make it into our own brand of verse.

Marty and Bob. Why would I waste my time on Manly when we all know that the Newcastle Knights are the premiers in waitng for 2011.

Where are you Manfred ? You could be right..." Physician heal yourself " as the saying goes. :)
Last edited by Neville Briggs on Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Neville
" Prose is description, poetry is presence " Les Murray.

william williams

Re: Reading poetry

Post by william williams » Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:19 pm

Now as I am an Aussie. An that game of biff and sniff is for the shelias. Fancy sniffing the bloke in front of you's back side ( are you sure you are not a dog fellas ) and Neville, Newcastle is in waiting and waiting and waiting how many years do we have to wait for what mate. A good horse a good dog who needs any other sport that is unless your chaseing shelias and at my age they hobble to fast and as for Manny well Phyician heel thy self you say. Well Manny right name should be Merlin the magical one as he keeps his Spirits in a bottle

the old battler

Neville Briggs
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Re: Reading poetry

Post by Neville Briggs » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:08 pm

William, I meant, I am the physician that needs to heal myself.
Neville
" Prose is description, poetry is presence " Les Murray.

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