grammar

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Maureen Clifford

Re: grammar

Post by Maureen Clifford » Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:08 pm

You can't help yourself Dave - good to see you back here with that irreverent sense of humour you have - I for one have missed you - think all the points raised here are valid and something has to be the X factor - so if it be a word out of context or the memorability of the words that make the decision - so be it.

There can only be one winner - as many have said.

Judging art shows? Really - tell us more.

Cheers

Maureen

Neville Briggs
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Location: Here

Re: grammar

Post by Neville Briggs » Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:13 pm

I hope you are wrong Martyboy, that the judges choice is a whim. That would make the contests just a lottery and not worth the trouble.

Irene, I understand the notion that one is to comply with criteria in a set event. No problem for me. I just expect that the judge will judge by the same criteria that are set for the entrants.

There's a lot of very ordinary people ( I'm one ) having a go for a bit of interest, ( and contributing funds to the local clubs ) Don't forget; without them there will be no competitions. I reckon that in bush poetry, encouragement takes precedence over rules and definitions.
After all, bush poetry is not a brand name, a trademark or a patented product. Is it ??


Neville
Neville
Singleton Bush Poets.

Leonie

Re: grammar

Post by Leonie » Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:08 am

Hi Martyboy, I made some comment along those lines but I might have confused people (easy for me) because the two poems I was talking about were in two different categories. But having said that I agree with you that the final decision might well be at the whim of the particular judge on the day. How many times have we heard the comments that the standard was so high it was a difficult decision and in the end came down to the winning poem having the 'wow' factor. What constitutes the 'wow' factor for me, might be completely different for you, so one would assume the same thing would apply for judges. They are only human after all, and how else can anything be judged when all else is equal but to pick the one that resonates with the judge the most. Nothing wrong with that, decisions are made like that every day and that's what they are there for, to make a decision. Yeah that might make it a bit like a lottery, but it's a lottery with a difference. There has to be a certain standard achieved before you even get into the lottery. As Dave (I think) said, it's easy to pick the wannabes, and they are out of the game pretty quickly.

Heather

Re: grammar

Post by Heather » Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:08 am

So if at first you don't succeed, try, try, again. :)

Terry
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Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:53 pm

Re: grammar

Post by Terry » Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:51 pm

G/day All,
We all have different tastes including Judges, you may miss out in one comp. but win the next with exactly the same poem. One Judge might be more lenient than the next, and so on, but that's poetry isn't it.
As long as we enjoy writing and sharing our poems, that's all that matters, If you want to try your luck in competitions go for it. If you prefer to just write in your own style, why not. Enjoying what you're doing is the only thing that counts, and if just one person enjoys a poem you've written, that's a bonus.

Cheers - Terry

warooa

Re: grammar

Post by warooa » Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:25 am

I reckon once you throw your hat into the ring and start entering comps, you should be thankful of any crititcal feedback whether you agree with it or not. The fact that someone has sat down and read probably hundreds of poems and critiqued them individually would be a herculian effort, all for little reward I'm guessing.

Marty

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Bellobazza
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Re: grammar

Post by Bellobazza » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:47 am

Spot on Marty...
To quote Barry Carozzi who judged the Toolangi comp...
"...judging is very subjective work. One man's meat is another man's poison. Not only that: on another day, I may have made slightly different decisions. Heaven knows, many of the highly commended poems were very, very good. Another judge may well have chosen differently."

Obviously, I was delighted to score a placing in that comp, but in no way do I consider my poem "better" than the third place getter or any other for that matter. Rather, I am encouraged that I am making some progress in my writing just to figure in the short-list at all when you consider the calibre of other competitors. Neville, the mere fact that your name appears in the company of the likes of Val Wallace, David Campbell, Jim Brown and Stephen Whiteside speaks to the quality of your poem.
On another day or with a different judge the order of results may have been completely different. I have already said on another thread what a wonderful poem Leonie's "The Brumby Man" is in my opinion (one of three 'Honorable Mentions for her). I feel quite sure that it is a winner given the right circumstances.

What I do encourage all comp organisers to consider is to offer the option of receiving the judges critique on your entry. This can be very helpful to entrants in gauging what sort of things the judge has marked you down for.
As an example, I entered a poem in a certain comp and it finished about mid-field. All of the usual criteria like metre, rhyme, punctuation etc. were ticked off. The only margin note was pencilled next to the last stanza. I had varied the 4 line stanza format apllied to the rest of the poem by adding an additional 2 lines to the last stanza (this was done intentionally for effect being intended to add emphasis to the 'punch line', so to speak.) The pencilled note read simply "6 line stanza".
Now, varying stanza length is not new. It has been employed by even the best masters of the art; still, this re-inforced my feeling that most judges are uncomfortable with anything that strays outside the standard formulaic structure of repetitive blocks of a given length stanza with no variation to the rhyming pattern established in the very first stanza.
I decided to add another two lines to the last stanza and split it into two 4 line stanzas to conform to the rest of the poems structure and give it another shot. This was the only change I made.That poem then achieved my very first outright win in the 'Humorous' section of the Hunter Bush Poets comp!

Was this due to the changes I made or was it simply that it appealed to this particular judge more than it did to the other? There's really no way to know unless the judge provides good feedback. More important is to take that feedback on board if you feel it is valid and use it to, hopefully, improve your writing.

So endeth the lesson, the congregation now being blissfully unconscious.

Cheers, Will.
"Each poet that I know (he said)
has something funny in his head..." CJD

Terry
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Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:53 pm

Re: grammar

Post by Terry » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:36 pm

G/day Will,
Yes that pretty well covers it.

I think I have offered my congratulations on your recent result on another thread somewhere but just in case well done mate.

Cheers Terry

Neville Briggs
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Re: grammar

Post by Neville Briggs » Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:38 pm

I hasten to say Will, that my comments did not relate to the Toolangi comp.

Maybe we should have judges in the bush poetry competitions who are not bush poets.


Neville
Neville
Singleton Bush Poets.

manfredvijars

Re: grammar

Post by manfredvijars » Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:15 pm

Neville Briggs wrote:Maybe we should have judges in the bush poetry competitions who are not bush poets.
... with the expertise appropriate to judging cockroach races?

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