Beyond Competitions or, Is that all there is?

[manfredvijars]

I have Vic, I love the language but struggle to call it a poem - prose to me, but experts will differ ...

One of many stand-out lines in that piece ...
"a story old Dan can spin into a blanket against the winter"

[Neville Briggs]

I looked it up Vic, it is a good one, just goes to show, bush poetry can be done in modernist form.

Nothing like prose Mannie, and I'm no expert; far from it, so I have to rely on all the experts who, without exception, tell me that it is the lines, the line endings that are one of the definitive characteristics of poetry. We shouldn't make the mistake of thinking that Judith Wright's line ending are merely arbitrary, it is obvious that they are not. Following what our mate Stephen Whiteside astutely pointed out, she is " making patterns ".
And you know Mannie that line endings are important because that is how you form your rhyming couplets and the shape of your song lyrics.

Also Judith Wright's poem called Bullocky fits the bush poetry genre ( and it rhymes )

[Neville Briggs]

It's a complicated question Marty. It's true that, as you alluded to , most Australians live in cities, but at the same time there is many who enjoy bush poetry as a sort of nostalgia for what they perceive as the romance of the other times and places.

And again there is the problem of a growing number of Australians who have no cultural connection to our heritage. I once had the misfortune to be part of a presentation of bush poetry to a group of middle eastern newcomers, it was a disaster, they were totally uninterested.
But then again Arabs, Jews and Persians have a very strong cultural affinity with the art of poetry, as do the Chinese. When I visited Zondrae's Illawarra bush poets they a young Asian lady who very keenly recited bush poetry by Henry Lawson.

As far as poems of vintage. I think mixing things up works OK. Contemporary with vintage, I think works. In the music concert world people still listen with enthusiasm to Beethoven, Purcell and Handel and they are antiques, the music that is , ) Even in the pop world, don't people still like a bit of Beatles and Buddy Holly, that stuff, which like us baby boomers is becoming vintage.

Maybe the themes are getting a bit tired. Maybe. If you care to have a look at some of the good contemporary poets they still do "bush" themes from time to time. I am inclined to think that it's the form that is getting tired. I know I get weary of sitting through bush poetry presentations where every poem is sung to the same tune, as Manfred calls it, iambic sevens.

I am not saying you are wrong, I think there is more to it than that. You mention how the people at the Laggan pub thought bush poetry was only for old people. And it seems to be rural workers not city folk who call the poetry room the departure lounge. Maybe it's the modern mind wherever it is found that does not resonate with our heritage of folk verse.

What's the answer. One of my colleagues used to come into the office most days and loudly proclaim " the answer is, there's no answer"

[manfredvijars]

Nothing like prose Mannie, and I'm no expert; far from it, so I have to rely on all the experts who, without exception, tell me that it is the lines, the line endings that are one of the definitive characteristics of poetry. We shouldn't make the mistake of thinking that Judith Wright's line ending are merely arbitrary, it is obvious that they are not. Following what our mate Stephen Whiteside astutely pointed out, she is " making patterns ".
And you know Mannie that line endings are important because that is how you form your rhyming couplets and the shape of your song lyrics.

Sorry Nev, that's rubbish. Mr. Oxford states that poetry is a literary work in which the expression of feelings and ideas is given intensity by the use of distinctive style and rhythm.

He goes on to quote, prose: written or spoken language in its ordinary form, without metrical structure.

The key to the definition of prose is a "marked lack of metrical structure"

As rich as the language in, "South of My Days" is, in every stanza in that delightful piece, the rythme falters and jars! It is written in ordinary form. There is no rhyming, AND there is no metrical structure!

Visual patterns do not a poem make!
Read it to a visually impaired person and ask them, "Prose or poetry?"

Sorry Mate, you're wrong!

[Neville Briggs]

Judith Wrights poem is not in ordinary form. That is blindingly obvious.

In any case it would not be me who is wrong. Those poets including Judith Wright, Kenneth Slessor, Les Murray, Clive James, T.S.Eliot, ,Bruce Dawe ,
Ezra Pound, William Carlos Williams, Dylan Thomas and others all got it wrong.

Mr. Oxford states that poetry is a literary work in which the expression of feelings and ideas is given intensity by the use of distinctive style and rhythm.

Quite so, and that is what Judith Wright's poem is, to be able to find that, you just have to remove the elephant in the room, Banjo Paterson.

[manfredvijars]

Then please tell me what the 'distinctive' style is ??

and particularly the "distinctive" rhythme??

Iambic? - No!
Anapaest? - No!
Mixed? - More 'ordinary' and a marked lack of metrical structure.

Looks like 'ordinary' form
Reads like 'ordinary' form
sounds like 'ordinary' form

The key element in Poetry is "metrical" form ..

If it's formatted to look like 'poetry'
it's still, 'ordinary form' using 'rich' language.

.... Prose!

[Neville Briggs]

South of My Days. Judith Wright.


South of my days' circle, part of my blood's country,
rises that tableland, high delicate outline
of bony slopes wincing under the winter,
low trees, blue leaved and olive, outcropping granite -
clean, lean, hungry country. .....

If anyone can't hear that that is poetry not prose then all the explanations, definitions and measuring in the world won't get through to them.

[Bob Pacey]

If I say it is will ya stop explaining ?


Bob

[manfredvijars]

If anyone can't hear that that is poetry not prose then all the explanations, definitions and measuring in the world won't get through to them.

Writing in prose doesn't detract from the piece Neville. It is still a beautiful piece of writing.
You can see yourself where the 'stresses' lie, There is no rythme! Show me the rythme! Saying otherwise is only kidding yourself.
I repeat, because thie piece is in prose does in no way detract from the piece - or the author.

Show me the rythme!

Prose ...

[Neville Briggs]

It's a subtle rhythm, a bit like syncopated jazz improvisation, not like Sousa banging the drum.
What would Miles Davis or Duke Ellington have said if we demanded " show us the rhythm "

Bob's right I can't explain any more. ya just gotta have heart Mannie Pause awhile and smell the roses.


p.s. I must say I don't go much on Judith Wright's politics or choice of boyfriends.